Greed wins in PA
07-13-2009, 04:13 AM
#31
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 659
Greed? Greed on whose part? Unless you were disabled or hunted in ML season there were no crossbow hunters in PA archery season. If you weren't already a bowhunter by now, how can anyone claim greed on the part of anyone but the one's who just rushed out and bought a xbow? Archers did not demand anything that they didn't already have. That cannot be defined as greed by any stretch. Greed is the PGC's approval of xbows in order to sel more archery tags to offset their failures to get a fee increase again. Greed is everyone who didn't bowhunt before even with today's high tech compounds, yet is banking on slamming a big buck with a xbow without paying the price , ie the long hours of practice that it takes to become deadly profficient with a vertical bow. If you have a legit disability, more power to you. Otherwise, modern compounds offer plenty enough advantage to consistently kill deer with sufficient practice. How easy do we want it to get here? Rifle season starting in September?
07-13-2009, 05:02 AM
#32
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Altoona,PA
Posts: 679
Greed? Greed on whose part? Unless you were disabled or hunted in ML season there were no crossbow hunters in PA archery season. If you weren't already a bowhunter by now, how can anyone claim greed on the part of anyone but the one's who just rushed out and bought a xbow? Archers did not demand anything that they didn't already have. That cannot be defined as greed by any stretch. Greed is the PGC's approval of xbows in order to sel more archery tags to offset their failures to get a fee increase again. Greed is everyone who didn't bowhunt before even with today's high tech compounds, yet is banking on slamming a big buck with a xbow without paying the price , ie the long hours of practice that it takes to become deadly profficient with a vertical bow. If you have a legit disability, more power to you. Otherwise, modern compounds offer plenty enough advantage to consistently kill deer with sufficient practice. How easy do we want it to get here? Rifle season starting in September?
So you are saying that the former and current members of the BOC only passed x-bows for the extra archery tags?
What’s wrong w/ slamming a “big buck” w/ an x-bow, why does it matter to you the weapon of choice for a hunter?
Here is my question why do you not want x-bows? Is it you don’t want hunters that “weren’t already bowhunters” out trying to get the “big buck” that you paid the price for that you want to shoot?
07-13-2009, 05:29 AM
#33
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 2G Gaines Pa
Posts: 524
I'm a bowhunter, ex member of the UBP, have hunted with a crossbow, killed with a crossbow, currently hunt with a compound and longbow, and couldn't care less what anybody else shoots or hunts with. I don't like full inclusion for one reason and one reason alone: GREED. I don't want to share the woods with any more people than I have to. And here lately, between the treehuggers, the flower sniffers, the inline hunters, the junior and senior doe hunters, the horseback riders, and the geocachers, there's enough people in the woods screwing things up already.
That being said, I don't think full inclusion will have any harmful effects on the herd at all because the successful crossbow hunter harvests will offset the kill that would have happened in the firearms season. Time will tell.
That being said, I don't think full inclusion will have any harmful effects on the herd at all because the successful crossbow hunter harvests will offset the kill that would have happened in the firearms season. Time will tell.
07-13-2009, 07:15 AM
#34
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 659
Greed from the bow hunters that want the woods to themselves, thinking the few extra hunters that may join the ranks of fall deer hunting may ruin the chances of them getting a buck. Greed coming from a BOC that is doing nothing but playing politics that has nothing to do w/ the resource.
So you are saying that the former and current members of the BOC only passed x-bows for the extra archery tags?
What’s wrong w/ slamming a “big buck” w/ an x-bow, why does it matter to you the weapon of choice for a hunter?
Here is my question why do you not want x-bows? Is it you don’t want hunters that “weren’t already bowhunters” out trying to get the “big buck” that you paid the price for that you want to shoot?
So you are saying that the former and current members of the BOC only passed x-bows for the extra archery tags?
What’s wrong w/ slamming a “big buck” w/ an x-bow, why does it matter to you the weapon of choice for a hunter?
Here is my question why do you not want x-bows? Is it you don’t want hunters that “weren’t already bowhunters” out trying to get the “big buck” that you paid the price for that you want to shoot?
Secondly, I highly encourage new bowhunters and seek to recruit several each year, especially youth...If I really wanted the woods to myself, I wouldn't be recruiting more bowhunters! My issue with xbows...without getting off the subject here too far, or starting another debate altogether is similar to the traditional views on the definition of marriage that I maintain. In short, I do not want the definition of bowhunting and our archery season to change, any more than modern technological advances affect compound bow technology each year. I have a deep love affair with the bow, and I use both traditional bows, as well as my Bowtech compound. Bowhunting was always about adding a more challenging denominator to deer hunting, and it has served as just that for so many of us that cut our teeth on rifle hunting...then sought a greater challenge as gun hunting became easier. There is also a common path that many compound archers take that eventually leads to traditional archery for the same reasons.
The range limitations, and close range challenges presented by archery have always limited its practical use as a widespread management tool. It has always been about the additional challenge and discipline....nothing else. General Xbow inclusion has changed that, as it just took a big leap in the direction of easier.
As for the increased buck harvest....probably minor, as one buck tag per license year is still only one buck tag per license year. Bag it in archery or bag it in rifle. Again, a mute point. It is about the definition of our archery season, and maintaining a certain degree of challenge, and I agree that the PGC has exploited its use and sold out that challenge by including them for general use. However, now that the damage is done, and countless hunters have spent small fortunes on the latest models, it will be here to stay...just like early ML season in October. Like it or not. Another blunder by the PGCircus.
07-13-2009, 07:38 AM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
SS why can't we include youth X bow hunters as well? I don't see where these myths of Xbow overkills, not practicing, not perfecting our woodsmanship as much as possible come from? I started recurves, hunted YEARS w/ compound and now choose to use Xbow. I still hunt recurve and like shootinjg practice w/it. I do not see the hordes of hunters swarming the woods, it is a new thing it won't last. Just like Compounds lot's bought and hunted for a coupleyears, those w/out the persistence or developed love pof the sport will quit. Maybe a good poll is how may compounds are sitting on the garage wall and not shot? If you go beyond this tool discussion, you look at the PAPGC, BOC and it's history of non-hunter support. You wonder wehy people get mad and upset. look at just this Xbow issue. I am not talking that it was voted in to beging with, look at the bcak and forth, suppoesed oppostition/voted in, no scopes/scopes, full inclusion/change to part inclusion all in what 3-4 month span. That is a lot of frustration for hunters trying to keep up w/ the game laws, license fees, doe license sales changes. STABILITY is something all should be looking for, so far I have seen instability of game laws, management and vote!
07-13-2009, 09:39 AM
#36
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Altoona,PA
Posts: 679
Wrong on all counts. Firstly, bowhunters have never had the woods to themselves. We have always shared them with small game hunters, turkey hunters, and more recently early ML hunters. Most of this additional presence in the woods is factoring in during the latter half of archery, the same time frame that features the developning stages of the rut and the time that most of us hunt the hardest for our bucks. We are used to sharing the woods. Your point is mute.
Secondly, I highly encourage new bowhunters and seek to recruit several each year, especially youth...If I really wanted the woods to myself, I wouldn't be recruiting more bowhunters! My issue with xbows...without getting off the subject here too far, or starting another debate altogether is similar to the traditional views on the definition of marriage that I maintain. In short, I do not want the definition of bowhunting and our archery season to change, any more than modern technological advances affect compound bow technology each year. I have a deep love affair with the bow, and I use both traditional bows, as well as my Bowtech compound. Bowhunting was always about adding a more challenging denominator to deer hunting, and it has served as just that for so many of us that cut our teeth on rifle hunting...then sought a greater challenge as gun hunting became easier. There is also a common path that many compound archers take that eventually leads to traditional archery for the same reasons.
The range limitations, and close range challenges presented by archery have always limited its practical use as a widespread management tool. It has always been about the additional challenge and discipline....nothing else. General Xbow inclusion has changed that, as it just took a big leap in the direction of easier.
As for the increased buck harvest....probably minor, as one buck tag per license year is still only one buck tag per license year. Bag it in archery or bag it in rifle. Again, a mute point. It is about the definition of our archery season, and maintaining a certain degree of challenge, and I agree that the PGC has exploited its use and sold out that challenge by including them for general use. However, now that the damage is done, and countless hunters have spent small fortunes on the latest models, it will be here to stay...just like early ML season in October. Like it or not. Another blunder by the PGCircus.
Secondly, I highly encourage new bowhunters and seek to recruit several each year, especially youth...If I really wanted the woods to myself, I wouldn't be recruiting more bowhunters! My issue with xbows...without getting off the subject here too far, or starting another debate altogether is similar to the traditional views on the definition of marriage that I maintain. In short, I do not want the definition of bowhunting and our archery season to change, any more than modern technological advances affect compound bow technology each year. I have a deep love affair with the bow, and I use both traditional bows, as well as my Bowtech compound. Bowhunting was always about adding a more challenging denominator to deer hunting, and it has served as just that for so many of us that cut our teeth on rifle hunting...then sought a greater challenge as gun hunting became easier. There is also a common path that many compound archers take that eventually leads to traditional archery for the same reasons.
The range limitations, and close range challenges presented by archery have always limited its practical use as a widespread management tool. It has always been about the additional challenge and discipline....nothing else. General Xbow inclusion has changed that, as it just took a big leap in the direction of easier.
As for the increased buck harvest....probably minor, as one buck tag per license year is still only one buck tag per license year. Bag it in archery or bag it in rifle. Again, a mute point. It is about the definition of our archery season, and maintaining a certain degree of challenge, and I agree that the PGC has exploited its use and sold out that challenge by including them for general use. However, now that the damage is done, and countless hunters have spent small fortunes on the latest models, it will be here to stay...just like early ML season in October. Like it or not. Another blunder by the PGCircus.
Your terminology I can understand and can agree w/ , a compound/x-bow as a type, and traditional bows for archery. I agree w/ you on the buck harvest. Many claim the “resource” was protected now. I haven’t heard a biologist state that yet or has it been seen in any other states.
Unfortunately you are correct that the PGC looks bad and its not because of the people that do the day to day hard work for the GC it’s from the BOC and the 4 members that are only concerned about their own personal agendas. With Weaner and Delaney playing way to much into politics.
07-13-2009, 11:29 AM
#37
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 2G Gaines Pa
Posts: 524
That being said, I don't think full inclusion will have any harmful effects on the herd at all because the successful crossbow hunter harvests will offset the kill that would have happened in the firearms season. Time will tell.
Just wondering......
Last edited by ManySpurs; 07-13-2009 at 11:37 AM. Reason: added to post
07-13-2009, 03:48 PM
#39
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
I feel the same way you do and am tired of having to explain why I love archery for the sport it was when I began and defend our way of hunting and trying to preserve it. I expressed my feelings over and over to apparently deaf ears and blind eyes, maybe they do have a legitimate disability and need to use a weapon previously reserved for the handicapped. Exactly what advantage does a handicapped person have now? My wife can hold back a bow in full draw why can't these men. If able bodied then hunt with a compound during the rest of the season that xbow hunters are no longer allowed to hunt. You get to use your xbows early and then you get to use a compound. No one is saying you can't archery hunt but all the whining would imply you have no other choice. I give no sympathy for any one who has the ability to take part in the greatest and most challenging of hunts-Archery and then sits back and cries injustice because they don't want to use a compound or traditional bow like the rest of us who have always archery hunted. Apparently you xbow guys who are calling the rest of us greedy just don't want to hunt that badly or you would be practicing with a "long" bow now and during the season or for the rest of your life like a large portion of us who archery hunt do. But that takes commitment and lots of practice.
07-13-2009, 04:13 PM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 3c pa
Posts: 1,212
4evr
I have had a bow in my hands all my life. It doesnt matter if your wife can hold full draw or not. Why does the disabled need a advantage ? so what xbow are legal
The disabled was allowed to use a xbow before so they could go out . Not necessarily a advantage. It should be up to the hunter when legal not where bow guys cry xbow guys have a advantage or they dont have to have commitment . boohoo you want commitment with your bow no one was taking that away.
I am ashamed to call myself a pa bow-hunter after what some of you have said.
I have had a bow in my hands all my life. It doesnt matter if your wife can hold full draw or not. Why does the disabled need a advantage ? so what xbow are legal
The disabled was allowed to use a xbow before so they could go out . Not necessarily a advantage. It should be up to the hunter when legal not where bow guys cry xbow guys have a advantage or they dont have to have commitment . boohoo you want commitment with your bow no one was taking that away.
I am ashamed to call myself a pa bow-hunter after what some of you have said.