The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

I was reading the Game news yesterday and saw a story about a small Wild turkey federation club that donated an automated turkey decor to help the PGC bust road hunters. :)Thats good.

Then the rest of the story goes on to say that cash, a chainsaw, sprayers and pruners have also been donated by this small club. Local hunters making their hunting better, what a concept.:eek:

Then I read about what the whiners here who spend their days bitching and complaining that the deer are, the deer are gone. Maybe if you put the mouse down and get outside maybe you too can make your own hunting a little bit better.[:-]

My hats off to those of you making things better foryour selves and others.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

That would suggest WORK:physical effort,to perform labor, a duty or task,taking part of a day devoted to accomplishing a goal. [/align][/align]Such a dirty four letter word.;)[/align]

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Sorry, but "work" or no work, its not a replacement for proper responsible deer management wmu or statewide, which we pay pgc for.

We can all work the land till our backs are broke and that will not change the facts of the matter.;)

Unless of course you are suggesting we all get sprayers, hoes, shovels etc, down to Elmerton Avenue and chase out the *&$%$%^ econuts the hell outta our management agency?:D

Btw, thanks for the info on the article. Kinda made me feel bad for not having given anything to pgc lately. But what they really need is to be given a briefcase full of pink slips from the governor!

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

And the ugly. :eek:

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

What's ugly?

Cornelius attitude or the fact that the game commission has been deficient in there duties? He is correct. This isn't a replacement for proper responsible deer management.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

The ugly is the attitude.
Bitter ,vile and nasty is not productive. Debate is based on knowledge, direction and common goal. Personal attacks and public crucification of people with opposing opinions gets nothing done.
I don,t agree with the herd reduction so on my land we don't shoot does. I don't see over abundance cucumber roots as the reason formy failure to flock shoot deer running through the woods.
The people atPGC don't scare me. I don'tsee black helicopters dropping coyotes in my woods. If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times the PGC is not shooting all of the doe, its "hunters" and thats who you should be shouting at.:eek:

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

You have the ugly attitude for blaming the hunters for doing what the PGC experts ask them to do. You claim what we have is professional deer management , but you suggest hunters should reject that deer management and manage the herd based on what they want. Make up your mind.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

I am not naive enough to believe that the PGC's management goals are set up to make me happy, I wish were also.

I'm also intelligent enough understand that I have a far greater knowledge of the land I hunt than a small group of political appointees in the other end of the state. They have guidelines within a spectrum of statewide diversity, within those guidelines they set goals to achieve results that are acceptable to the majority of the states residents.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Nope. The PGC is the one making the decisions and calling the shots. The hunters are nothing more than a tool for PGC to achieve their goals. The blame belongs on the PGC.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Deficient in what duties?Providing Maverick a bunch of easy targets?

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

We all have stake in the future of deer hunting in PA, this small club is making a difference and it would be nice to see more positive input than the blame game that some insist on playing.

Once again my hats off to those of you that care enough to get out and improve habitat for all of the states wildlife.:)

Like most things in life, yourhunting success will most likely reflect just how much effort you put into it.[:-]

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Thats easy Doug. Providing a reasonable responsible deer management plan that includes hunters as one of the significant stakeholders when considering management decisions.

Jim says: "The ugly is the attitude. "

Jim its a product of pgcs own making. They knew EXACTLY what the attitude would be from the hunters when they decided to jump into bed with the econuts from day one.


"Bitter ,vile and nasty is not productive."

But it is what it is. If someone cussed your ol' lady or smacked your dog, or hosed you out of some money, youd be "bitter' "vile" and Id image "nasty". How is being hosed by pgc any more acceptable when it comes to our "lifestyle"?

' Debate is based on knowledge , direction and common goal."

Our goals are not the same as "econuts" or currently pgcs.

"Personal attacks and public crucification of people with opposing opinions gets nothing done."

Thats a two way street and they reap what they sow.

"I don,t agree with the herd reduction so on my land we don't shoot does. I don't see over abundance cucumber roots as the reason for my failure to flock shoot deer running through the woods."

Well thats just swell. Manage your own land and to hell with everyone esle. Thats fine, but dont expect the rest of us to be just as happy with things.

"The people at PGC don't scare me. I don't see black helicopters dropping coyotes in my woods."

No, they are too busy carpet bombing those woods with antlerless deer licenses, taking casualty counts and counting hobblebush.

"If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times the PGC is not shooting all of the doe,"

I couldnt give a damn less if hunters shoot every stinking one of them if its legal. In fact, that might just be a good remedy for all this deer war nonsense! LOL.

We pay PGC to manage and that includes preventing overkill from happening. "the hunters" didnt voluntarily stop shooting the bucks as yearlings. Pgc acted and implement ar. This is no different, in fact its probably even more important for them to act now.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

And if you put in the effort necessary and are successful in spite of a largely failed deer plan and a corrupt management agency, that doesnt mean you will feel any differently.

I know I dont.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

The plan is a failure in your eyes, problem is the other residents of the state have eyes also.

Explain the corruption part for me?[>:]

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

"The plan is a failure in your eyes, problem is the other residents of the state have eyes also. "

No. Its just a failure. When herd health HASNT increased. Hunters numbers HAVE continued to decline along with hunter satisfaction bottoming out, and when more stakeholders are pizzed than satisfied, there is no other way to paint it.

"Explain the corruption part for me?"

No explanation necessary. I think most realize things are not "on the up and up" at pgc these days. Want particulars? Gain Carl Roes confidence and ask him.;)

Also wanted to add, you speak of everyone should go out and work harder hunt longer etc. etc. But the number of deer is not limitless and there simply are no more to harvest. We are already continuing the decline of our herd with current harvest level. There is no way we can harvest more unless we want an even much smaller herd than already, unless we allow herd growth first.


Just noticed your sig line. ha ha. I guess you really DO have a sense of humor.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

It ain't rocket science, quit shooting does. Have you no friends that hunt? Tell them to quit shooting does. Really its not that hard.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

There's also a field note about fences and the time line for regeneration to occure.

Who would of thought that elevation and the lenght of the growing season would effect regeneration.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

"It ain't rocket science, quit shooting does. Have you no friends that hunt? Tell them to quit shooting does."

Other than 1 youth hunter last year taking one doe, None of us do. But I have no intention or right to tell others over on the surrounding properties (or even others i do not know on the land I hunt) what to shoot if it is legal game.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

"There's also a field note about fences and the time line for regeneration to occure.
Who would of thought that elevation and the lenght of the growing season would effect regeneration"

How does this effect anything? Doesnt really matter when all varying elevations across the state are getting excessive unnecessary amounts of reduction in the first place. Including those whose habitat were fine in the first place.

Btw, I dont buy that rag. Not putting any more money in pgcs hands than I have to. I do read it at the store most issues though! lol

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

THATS what it will take. The PGC dont pull your trigger hunters do. I quit hunting in Pa and post the hey out of my property to try and protect a doe. Bought property in another state to hunt where all my neighbors dont slaughter all the does. BUT I have no doubt if the hunters thru some miracle would stop shooting to many does the PGC would hire and pay a hit squad to do the dirty work. Adios I am heading out for 10 days to my land in another state to enjoy feasting my eyes on 6 dozen deer and take a fawn count.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

But you support the PGC and their deer management plan but then you expect hunters not to follow the plan. That makes no sense. Since the majority of the land adjoining our property is open to the public ,I only know a few of the hunters that hunt those areas and I'm not about to tell others what they should or shouldn't shoot as long as it's legal..

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Hmmmm!.......I have a chainsaw, a sprayer and even pruners.

What do you think would happen if I were to go out to the SGL and improve the deer habitat a little?

What would RSB say when he heard that chainsaw and came out into the woods to investigate?

I predict he would be writing a citation, becuse it is illegal to do those activities on SGL, regardless if it were to make improvments.

While driving home with my citation in hand, I'd be wishing I would have just stayed home and kept my mouse in hand.

If it weren't illegal, I know several State owned areas I could improve with some plantings, yet there ain't much I can do about it is there?

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Don't put words in my mouth , I have stated numerous times I have little support for the PGC or their wood rat studies. Its just that I will not belittle, degrade or call a man a lier because he disagrees with myview of how deer should or should be managed.

I do find it quite comical that you would belittle ,degrade and mock R.S.B. and other employees of the PGC yet you won't discuss H.R. with your neighbors. Keyboard balls come to mind.;)

And not to name names but if in one thread I bragged about killing wellover a hundred deer and that shooting fawns was a big part of my success I don't think I would be posting about deer numbers or lack here of.;)

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Our hands are tied when it comes to going out ourselves to improve the habitat on SGLs.


I'd love to take my ATV out and plant some of the fields with deer clover at some SGLs.

It makes me lagh when I picture myself out there working to make improvements and the PGC shows up.

Would they be proud of me and shake my hand or do you think they'd respond differently?

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

They are not liars because they disagree with my view of how the deer should be managed , they are liars because they make claims that are not supported by the facts.

I have no problem discussing ARs and HR with my friends and neighbors. But ,they are all adults and have every right to harvest whatever is legal based on their own standards.
That definitely wasn't me since I have not harvested 100 deer in PA, since I never shot more than 1 deer/yr.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Huh!....You forgot the part about most of those deer coming form West Virginia...LOL

Besides of the ones from PA, I did just as The PGC ask. Couldn't have bought tags if they weren't available.

You agree with PGC's deer managment plan don't you?

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

I feel pretty bad about being blasted for not going out to improve habitat and all.

That NWTF club donating those supplies and all.

Then you insult us guys for not going out and improving things.

I kindly poited out that RSB would not be happy with me doing such things on SGL property.

Will you pay my fine?

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Or just maybe you could buy your own land.;)

But of course you knew that , so now you can tell me how poor and unable to afford the extra expense that land would cost you for time spent with your family doing what you say you love to do.

We all know what excuses are like, now don't we ?[:-]

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

So thats the big fix to poor deer management in our state? All of us spend tons of cash as the only way to have even decent hunting? All 900,000+ of us? lol.

After you subtract all the land not for sale from the total land mass, land owners dont want to part with, + gameland +stateforests + cities + everything else not to be sold....

Maybe we can each become proud owners of 50 square feet apiece when all available land is divied up amongst us? lol.:D

Would you suggest we plant that with on tablespoon of clover seed, or 5 kernels of corn? lol.

"We all know what excuses are like, now don't we"

Youre right. We all know EXACTLY what they are like. We've listened to pgc making them for years.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Owning land is a realistic goal, its a great investment and a guaranteed return for your children.

Or you can use your method of bitching and whining on a message board, hows it working for ya?

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Workin' just fine thanks.

Ive seen a licence fee increase stalled because of legislative intervention. I see pgc being sued. I see an audit (even thought its crooked as hell)...

All because of griping.

If i were to buy land, Id still be beeching about the failed program. For me, its not a replacement for expecting responsible management that we pay for. I dont hunt one property. Far from it. That wouldnt change if I owned land.

Wether I buy land in the future or not, the management plan is a failure, and i will not bend on command to the pgc and econuts. My voice will be heard today....tomorrow, next friday....next year....as long as it takes. As long as more and more fraud is being committed, it will be pointed out. Get used to it. Dont wanna hear it? Instead of logging on, you can always go work your land.

Btw, one day in the future I very well may be purchasing land. In Pa, or possibly Ohio. Will be a few years down the road though. But as I said....It makes no difference at all as far as my expectations of Pgc.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

America was founded on the ability of individuals to control their own destiny, grow a pair andearn control of your on.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

I have a pair and they are size xxl when spoken of in any context, land or no land, but thanks for the concern regarding my "set". :D

This country was also founded on freedom of speech and I intend to exercise it as well.;)

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

The man that choses to exercises the second amendment can quickly eliminate the man whom choses to exercises the first amendment.;)

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

For murder, he can also be thrown into a prison cell for the rest of his life with a big ***** named Jamal.:D

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

That would be something worth bitching about, little more important than a few deer.[>:]

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

Deer mismanagement is our current reality. And if it were only "a few deer" we wouldnt be having the "deer wars". lol

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

we?who is we cornelius?we nothing.you are having the "deer wars" along with a handfull of other people.you don't speak for the state you speak for yourself.and state land is so overly hunted the deer usually do run on to private land.atleast around here we do.we don't have much land,around 25 acres,but hunting there and hunting sgl is 2 different things.and yeah maybe you get to hunt a couple of other peoples properties but big deal.from my house i have access to almost 160+ acres that border the state land.not to mention if i drive somewhere else to hunt.i see deer and enough to be content for now.what you say isn't going to make the deer com back at once.and it wasn't you who sued the game commision,got them audited or stalled the license fee increase.personally what i think if you want more deer then we should stop hunting for a year or 2 and let the herd grow.or bucks only.then what would you complain about?seeing too many deer?not enough big bucks?and don't tell me they aren't in pa.my buddy shot one last year that scored 140 something.not to mention the 12 pts and others that were in the paper around here the last few years.and rememeber those who brag lag.maybe "jamal" thinks your "set" is xxl.lol awfully funny you even know his name.

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

And I know a family from Little Marsh that's been killing bucks like that in the Tioga State Forest for the last 30 years. What's your point?:eek:

RE: The good, the bad & the ugly.
 

So what was your point in starting this thread?

I took it that you wanted us to go out and improve habitat and quit complaining.

I was just letting you know that it was illegal to do so on SGL.

Now you want to switch gears and tell us to buy our own property.

Sounds to me, that you don't have faith in the PGC making much improvement on those SGL.

Why would a hunter need to buy ground if the hunting were so great on SGL?