RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

How many more deer would you like to see during the season? What number would you find satisfactory?

And how will we know? If the deer kill goes up you say we are reducing the herd, if it goes down you say we've killed them all. Haven't the last two years numbers been quite similar?

RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

"How many more deer would you like to see during the season? What number would you find satisfactory? "

With reasonable deer numbers and stopping the unsupported further reductiion + allowing enough growth to account for some of that which was lost in the last few years of "supposed stabilization" everything else will then work itself out. Of course, I and everyone else will see more deer. Numberwise? Doesnt really matter, I'll see my share.;)

"And how will we know? If the deer kill goes up you say we are reducing the herd, if it goes down you say we've killed them all. Haven't the last two years numbers been quite similar? "

Yes. Both VERY LOW. The first year, according to pgc the weather was supposedly to blame for harvest being so low. That being the case, the buck harvest shoulda increased significantly since the claim was more deer would be available. That didnt happen even thought the weather was great last year, because the herd had been reduced. It was just as low as previously, only no excuse this time. It will be again this year. There will be even fewer deer available overall due to an efficient harvest thanks to having a smaller herd, + the good weather and tons of tags again last season.

My contention of declining deer herd is not MY assessment alone, based on the harvest. Pgc also has a deer herd change index on their annual report which shows herd decline or increase by wmu for the last few years. Most wmus have been a net decrease during last 4 years. Some significantly so. They refer to it as "stabilization" because some of them arent declining as fast as they were previously...LOL. I guess we should be thankful? LOL.[:'(]

RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

As but one example from the annual report...

2a....Its a good example and one im most familiar with, though many other wmus could be shown for the example just as accurately...

in 2004 the herd declined 3%. In 2005 it did stay basically stable with 1% gain (thanks to weather i suppose). In 2006 the herd declined 7%. In 2007 it declined another 9%....

Now its not listed yet, but it just about certainly declined again this past season.

How many years of this should be accepted before we complain that we were originally supposed to have the herd size from back in 2004 or 05 when stabilization first became the goal?? Remember, this was after all of our "called for" reduction had already taken place!!

RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

Cornelius, what I hear out of that statement is that you aren't affected by the problemthat you spend so much time and energy on. Doesn'tquite compute.

RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

Not effected enough to quit. Pgc and ecoflakes wont run me off from doing something that is 100% a big part of my lifestyle. Fix your computer.;)

I see "my share' now. I'd see "my share" with responsible change. "My share" is just a little larger (as would be everyone esles) with responsible changes.

RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

So you want a 20 % gain to occur? What is the number that it declined to in 07?

RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

Depends on the wmu ben. If using my example wmu, I think a 15-20% increase on what we have currently to be VERY reasonable considering all involved. Just as important as the increase numberwise , it would mean that the steady continued decrease that has been occurring will have finally ended.

RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

So what are the number's down to in 2A?

RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

Though, this is the best area of the state as far as habitat type. My last computation not adding in any reduction from this past year puts it at less than 24 overwinter dpsm. And decreasing. With the steady decline and no attempt made to fix it, whos to say how low it will go? We have a ridiculously inapproprate high allocation of 55,000! Thats 10 thousand more than we used to reduce the much higher herd years ago! We could have used some reduction we got, since we were at a ridiculous 69 dpsm in 1999. Though the forest here, even with the overly high numbers was not damaged then, according to the earliest regeneration study. I believe you can understand that it doesnt take 45,000 tags to keep a deer herd of less than 25 owdpsm stable when that same number was reducing a herd much higher??? So Id imagine its pretty clear we dont need that many here NOW? Than maybe you can explain to me why we now have...not 45k,....but 55,000 LOL??

This is not big woods with low carry capacity like the north either. Similar habitat types in other states have herd goals of usually in the range of 35 to 40. Though Id be satisfied with less, especially with the ridiculous continued downhill slide stopped.

That says nothing of the wmus wotj areas of 10 dpsm and other ridiculousness either! lol.

RE: WHAT IS BEST FIX FOR THE BROKEN SYSTEM IN PA??
 

I was kind of split between tow options here. Legislators force the changes, and elected commissioners. I've always despised most governmental appointments of siignificance. It opens the door to way too much political back rubbing (see Rendell administation and Obama's latest nominee for supreme court justice.) why is it that we can elect senators and congressman, but Supreme court justices are appointed, albeit confirmed, with no voice of the people? They are ulitmately much more powerful by the nature of their appointment. Sorry to get off on a tangent here. I voted for legislators to force reasonable changes. Not quite ready to see DCNR take the reigns, and likewise don't necess. want the doors bolted, either. Leads to the obvious question of who would regulate hunting and wildlife?