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RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
Pike, we are supposed to believe, I guess, that this thorough evaluation will include EVERYTHING. LOL. Examining in depth, each issue being very complex iand time consuming in itself: herd health issues, past and present. Regeneration, past and present. Human conflict past and present. Evaluate various pgc data collection methods, Evaluate report system and rates etc. Cac suggestions and makeup, Herd size estimates past and present, probably evaluate our antler restriction, appropriateness of allocation to the goals, evaluate the goals, pgc/hunter communication and relations, Take all that stuff and more and compare to other states... And also possibly come up with alternative methods.
Done in an unbiased manner, by our new pgc commissioners work partners at wmi...All within a year so pgc can get their fee increase in a timely manner. LOL. Funny thing is, this is what we are to believe, all this will be done and then some...and thoroughly...and under a year....yet look how long it takes Pgc to prepare and present only one years worth of data in the form of annual report which is only one year and doesnt even take into account the majority of this stuff the audit will look into!! |
RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
But how unbiased an audit can we truly expect from the agency that practically wrote the plan?Surely the PGC supporters would raise hell if the USP conducted the audit themselves, for obvious reasons of bias,likewise those of us pleading for an honest and unbiased audit of the PGC should not be satisfied with their "sister company" recieving the bid. It reeks of inside dealing. Why can't we find ANYONE out there qualified and completely neutral of opinion to do this audit? Has anyone considered a respected university?
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RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
Wonder what strings were attached with putnam getting that commissioner seat. Of all people it just happens to be someone associated with thecompany that just so happens to be doing our audit!...and also the company thatpgc has already worked with on more than one occassion! Imagine that....surprise! surprise with pgc the ugly coincidences never end! LMAO! :eek: Not to mention his being a clearlyantideer advocate. Pgc wins,with another antideer tool to continue the carnage, this guy gets the position he wants with god only knows what else to gain, wmi gets money for doing an audit along with past and future dealings, And Pgc get a favorable review as well? Seems if this musing is accurate, everyone wins...except, as usual, the hunter again.
Lots of good things happen to those who support pgc and the dcnr deer plan. Look at Audubons Tim Shaeffer. It got him a nice cushy well paying job with Fish Commission. |
RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
ORIGINAL: J Pike BT. How can WMI do their job if the PGC. cannot provide accurate current DD.'s or DD.'s of years past aswell? How can WMI tell us were we need to go if they dont know where we currently are or have been in recent years? Pike Jeff, That subject should be part of what the audit examines. Lets not forget that the last time the PGC was examined by an outside source, significant room for improvement was found. Why should we not at least wait till it's done before picking it apart? |
RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
We can't pick apart something that hasn't been developed. We are simply discussing issues the audit needs to address and their possible implications. But, the conflict of interest issue is something else that won't be addressed by the audit.
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RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
[quote]ORIGINAL: bluebird2 We can't pick apart something that hasn't been developed. We are simply discussing issues the audit needs to address and their possible implications. But, the conflict of interest issue is something else that won't be addressed by the audit. [quote] You havenot onlypredicted what the audit will show you have begun to pick apart the results that you have assumed. You've done it on this very thread! Here are a few examples.... The biodiversity carrying capacity for the forests of the northern tier is only 8 DPSM ,so it looks like the audit will show that 2F still has too many deer and the herd in 2G will remain at 8 DPSM no matter how much regeneration might improve. What do you think the chances are that audit will provide a logical explanation for why 2F is being managed at almost twice the density of 2G? None of the PGC supporter here came close to providing an answer and neither will the audit. Do you think the audit will explain why 5C has the worst regeneration in the state even though it has some of the best soils in the state and a DD that is way below the MSY carrying capacity? Will it answer why statewide breeding rates decreased as the herd was reduced or will that issue be ignored? Will it answer how the PGC suddenly determined that all but one WMU was at or above the target goal for herd health with such a wide range in productivity? What do you think the chances are the audit will provide a logical explanation for why 2F is being managed at almost twice the density as 2G even though it has poorer regeneration. Dr. Rosenberry,RSB and other PGC supporters haven't come close and neither will the audit. Will the audit explain how all but 1 WMU is at its target goal for herd health with such a wide range in productivity? Will it explain why statewide breeding rates decreased by 5% when they were predicted to increase? Will it explain why 5C has the worst regeneration in the state even though it has very good soils and a deer density that is considerably below the MSY carrying capacity? The fact is , it is highly unlikely that any of those questions will be answered by the audit and we will be told that the plan is scientifically sound. Those quotes are most certainly not repesentative of an objective unbiased open mind. At least you have saved yourself the trouble of needing to waste time reading the report when it comes out before you make up your mind.  |
RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter ORIGINAL: J Pike BT. How can WMI do their job if the PGC. cannot provide accurate current DD.'s or DD.'s of years past aswell? How can WMI tell us were we need to go if they dont know where we currently are or have been in recent years? Pike Jeff, That subject should be part of what the audit examines. Lets not forget that the last time the PGC was examined by an outside source, significant room for improvement was found. Why should we not at least wait till it's done before picking it apart? Also a while back bluetick posted on HPA. and outline of what the audit was going to cover and current and past DD. and what the proper DD. should be wasnt included. Pike |
RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08 Wonder what strings were attached with putnam getting that commissioner seat. Of all people it just happens to be someone associated with thecompany that just so happens to be doing our audit!...and also the company thatpgc has already worked with on more than one occassion! Imagine that....surprise! surprise with pgc the ugly coincidences never end! LMAO! :eek: Not to mention his being a clearlyantideer advocate. Pgc wins,with another antideer tool to continue the carnage, this guy gets the position he wants with god only knows what else to gain, wmi gets money for doing an audit along with past and future dealings, And Pgc get a favorable review as well? Seems if this musing is accurate, everyone wins...except, as usual, the hunter again. Lots of good things happen to those who support pgc and the dcnr deer plan. Look at Audubons Tim Shaeffer. It got him a nice cushy well paying job with Fish Commission. |
RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
Here is a list of contact info for WMI, I suggest that all of us with concerns with the upcoming audit contact them with specific concerns that we feel should be included and investigated in the audit. Let them know that the hunters of PA have a voice and it will be heard! I regret that I could not find any email addresses, so I hope they have a good phone plan! (I'm having trouble with javascript. Anyone else maybe give it a try and we'll post those email addresses.)
Officers \n Steven A. Williams This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , President 717-677-4480 \n Richard E. McCabe This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , Vice President 410-266-9513 \n Scot J. Williamson This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , Vice President 802-748-6717 Field Representatives \n Donald F. McKenzie This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it Southeast (AL, AR, FL, GA, KY, LA, MS, NC, SC, TN, VA) 2396 Cocklebur Road Ward, Arkansas 72176 501-941-7994, phone 501-941-7995, fax \n This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it "> \n Scot J. Williamson This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it Northeast (CT, DE, MA, MD, ME, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT, WV) 69 Clinton Avenue St. Johnsbury, Vermont 05819 802-748-6717, phone 802-748-7809, fax \n This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it "> \n Patrick Ruble This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it Midwest (IA, IL, IN, KS, MI, MN, MO, ND, NE, OH, SD, WI) 12748 West Bank Dr. Millersport, OH 43046 740-966-0496, mobile phone |
RE: PA DEER AUDIT UPDATE.....
Those quotes are most certainly not repesentative of an objective unbiased open mind. At least you have saved yourself the trouble of needing to waste time reading the report when it comes out before you make up your mind. When guys like you read the audit and just nod your head in blind agreement, you will be just as biased as those of us that ask the hard questions and have the data to back up our position. So people like to claim they have an open mind because it makes them feel superior, when in fact they simply don't have enough knowledge to form a coherent opinion they can defend. |
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