There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
04-28-2009, 04:36 AM
#31
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
ORIGINAL: the outsider
"So, if it were that easy, why didnt we do the bingo bango before ramming the xbow down the throats of the 90% who were against it?"
Here we go again with the 90% crap. A true representation of the hunters in PA? Prove it. It was just 90% of those who knew of, and responded to a proposal by the PGC. How many responded v total number ofhunters in PA?And my guess is that most were bowhunters being vocal, not the general hunting population in PA.
"So, if it were that easy, why didnt we do the bingo bango before ramming the xbow down the throats of the 90% who were against it?"
Here we go again with the 90% crap. A true representation of the hunters in PA? Prove it. It was just 90% of those who knew of, and responded to a proposal by the PGC. How many responded v total number ofhunters in PA?And my guess is that most were bowhunters being vocal, not the general hunting population in PA.
Your demand to "prove it" is inappropriate and misdirected. If you wish to dispute the FACT that 90% of the response recieved was against the crossbow,YOU are the onewho bearsthe burden of proof.
04-28-2009, 04:46 AM
#32
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
Also 90% of 1,000 hunters in a state of 900,000 hunters does not make 90% against. That was respondents and i am sure motivating the crowd are the Compound Crew from organized clubs . You can;t keep throwing that number around, it is false and lends to the idea that 810,000 registered hunters are against the Xbow. That is wrong and I beleive you know it, but a small group of 1,000 hunters responded and by God that means your numbers are correct.
04-28-2009, 05:07 AM
#33
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
"That is wrong and I beleive you know it, but a small group of 1,000 hunters responded and by God that means your numbers are correct. You are being exclusionist again Corneilius and company and that is what I am against. Impact,, if that was an issue Allegheny County would have no deer left! "
I find it more than a bit contradictory on your part to first point towards 1000 hunters as not representing the rest, yet you point to the allegheny county sra area as being representative of the rest of the state,even though itis but a SMALL part of the overall state, and absolutely nothing like the rest with its access issues, no rifles, and the goal of REDUCTION as opposed to STABILIZATION for most of the rest of the state.
"But don't wporry C08, you will have your own bow time ans screw the rest. That will give you satisfaction. "
Noone will or ever has said "screw the rest". Those who chose not to pick up a bow and hunt with it previously screwed themselves willingly by not doing so, and if they didnt care enough to do so, why the hell should we care if they don't?
I find it more than a bit contradictory on your part to first point towards 1000 hunters as not representing the rest, yet you point to the allegheny county sra area as being representative of the rest of the state,even though itis but a SMALL part of the overall state, and absolutely nothing like the rest with its access issues, no rifles, and the goal of REDUCTION as opposed to STABILIZATION for most of the rest of the state.
"But don't wporry C08, you will have your own bow time ans screw the rest. That will give you satisfaction. "
Noone will or ever has said "screw the rest". Those who chose not to pick up a bow and hunt with it previously screwed themselves willingly by not doing so, and if they didnt care enough to do so, why the hell should we care if they don't?
04-28-2009, 05:11 AM
#34
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location:
Posts: 282
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Sorry, but that is a desperate arguement that just doesnt wash. The issue was all over the hunting media and the net. Just like the bonehead who doesnt vote but then complains about what politicians do, those who never took enough interest to participate simply don't count. Public comment was invited and there was a response. The issue was quite an active one in terms of the volume of the responses. There is no reason to think that there is any inaccuracy in the numbers.
Your demand to "prove it" is inappropriate and misdirected. If you wish to dispute the FACT that 90% of the response recieved was against the crossbow,YOU are the onewho bearsthe burden of proof.
ORIGINAL: the outsider
"So, if it were that easy, why didnt we do the bingo bango before ramming the xbow down the throats of the 90% who were against it?"
Here we go again with the 90% crap. A true representation of the hunters in PA? Prove it. It was just 90% of those who knew of, and responded to a proposal by the PGC. How many responded v total number ofhunters in PA?And my guess is that most were bowhunters being vocal, not the general hunting population in PA.
"So, if it were that easy, why didnt we do the bingo bango before ramming the xbow down the throats of the 90% who were against it?"
Here we go again with the 90% crap. A true representation of the hunters in PA? Prove it. It was just 90% of those who knew of, and responded to a proposal by the PGC. How many responded v total number ofhunters in PA?And my guess is that most were bowhunters being vocal, not the general hunting population in PA.
Your demand to "prove it" is inappropriate and misdirected. If you wish to dispute the FACT that 90% of the response recieved was against the crossbow,YOU are the onewho bearsthe burden of proof.
04-28-2009, 05:16 AM
#35
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
Those who wanted crossbows legalized should have the burden of proof to show hunters wanted them legalized.They didnt do it. You dont just say, we are gonna do this because you think more than half the hunters want them, and many others of us think far more than half dont. And the only input showed huge majority against.
I see no evidence by supporting side of anything better.
I see no evidence by supporting side of anything better.
04-28-2009, 06:02 AM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
Deadlocked as your 1000 hunters is a number that means nada to 899,000 other hunters. Non vote ususally means don't care on doesn't warrant enough of my interest impact me. Using your number scheme I have the vote as ONLY 1000 of you exclusionists responded. As what will happen w/ the Xbow vote, to late to change and not a good choice for the hunting cvommunity to get all fired up about. How can you ever trust any group that flip/flops like this on a vote so quickly? Again, look at the other issues and what is happening in your state hunting plan. and GC. Xbow is the least of the problem and a very small win, IF you even get a retro vote that stciks! This is what makes PA a laughjingstock in the hunting community these days. People just shake there heads in distrust, disgust and wonder at the antics the hunting organizations show, the voting record, the POS dilemma , Sunday hunting, doe allocation, and something like this that you all are running with and betting the bank on. Again, so what you win! It has changed nothing about the communication or PGC program in the state. Rendell is still the governor and he sits back w/ his socialist pals loving these weapons debates amongst ourselves. But man we gotta keep those Xbows out of the woods that will be full of poachers and lazy slobs and newbies and all sorts of Xbow toting gangs! Jeeze. Okay CO8 rescind the Xbow debate as you have proven to me and everyone on this site that your 1000 strong are right and the majoroity of the US (which is continually adding Xbow) that have Xbow hunting is wrong. We are wrong for wanting to hunt w/ a Xbow, wrong for having an opinion that defies your exclusionist ideals and wrong for wanting to spend time in our woods w/ the stringed weapon of our choice. What do yu call 1000 people who are ranting and screaming out of 900,000 hunters who have chosen not to vote or express and opinion (see above description) radicals and ec-bownuts! Which the state of PA continually votes into office , listens to and responds to because we all no extremist organizations in PA are the norm, not the exception. There you are CO* a new name for your organization Ec-bownuts!
Bring back Sproul!
Bring back Sproul!
04-28-2009, 07:45 AM
#37
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
ORIGINAL: Buck Hunter 1
Deadlocked as your 1000 hunters is a number that means nada to 899,000 other hunters. Non vote ususally means don't care on doesn't warrant enough of my interest impact me. Using your number scheme I have the vote as ONLY 1000 of you exclusionists responded. As what will happen w/ the Xbow vote, to late to change and not a good choice for the hunting cvommunity to get all fired up about. How can you ever trust any group that flip/flops like this on a vote so quickly? Again, look at the other issues and what is happening in your state hunting plan. and GC. Xbow is the least of the problem and a very small win, IF you even get a retro vote that stciks! This is what makes PA a laughjingstock in the hunting community these days. People just shake there heads in distrust, disgust and wonder at the antics the hunting organizations show, the voting record, the POS dilemma , Sunday hunting, doe allocation, and something like this that you all are running with and betting the bank on. Again, so what you win! It has changed nothing about the communication or PGC program in the state. Rendell is still the governor and he sits back w/ his socialist pals loving these weapons debates amongst ourselves. But man we gotta keep those Xbows out of the woods that will be full of poachers and lazy slobs and newbies and all sorts of Xbow toting gangs! Jeeze. Okay CO8 rescind the Xbow debate as you have proven to me and everyone on this site that your 1000 strong are right and the majoroity of the US (which is continually adding Xbow) that have Xbow hunting is wrong. We are wrong for wanting to hunt w/ a Xbow, wrong for having an opinion that defies your exclusionist ideals and wrong for wanting to spend time in our woods w/ the stringed weapon of our choice. What do yu call 1000 people who are ranting and screaming out of 900,000 hunters who have chosen not to vote or express and opinion (see above description) radicals and ec-bownuts! Which the state of PA continually votes into office , listens to and responds to because we all no extremist organizations in PA are the norm, not the exception. There you are CO* a new name for your organization Ec-bownuts!
Bring back Sproul!
Deadlocked as your 1000 hunters is a number that means nada to 899,000 other hunters. Non vote ususally means don't care on doesn't warrant enough of my interest impact me. Using your number scheme I have the vote as ONLY 1000 of you exclusionists responded. As what will happen w/ the Xbow vote, to late to change and not a good choice for the hunting cvommunity to get all fired up about. How can you ever trust any group that flip/flops like this on a vote so quickly? Again, look at the other issues and what is happening in your state hunting plan. and GC. Xbow is the least of the problem and a very small win, IF you even get a retro vote that stciks! This is what makes PA a laughjingstock in the hunting community these days. People just shake there heads in distrust, disgust and wonder at the antics the hunting organizations show, the voting record, the POS dilemma , Sunday hunting, doe allocation, and something like this that you all are running with and betting the bank on. Again, so what you win! It has changed nothing about the communication or PGC program in the state. Rendell is still the governor and he sits back w/ his socialist pals loving these weapons debates amongst ourselves. But man we gotta keep those Xbows out of the woods that will be full of poachers and lazy slobs and newbies and all sorts of Xbow toting gangs! Jeeze. Okay CO8 rescind the Xbow debate as you have proven to me and everyone on this site that your 1000 strong are right and the majoroity of the US (which is continually adding Xbow) that have Xbow hunting is wrong. We are wrong for wanting to hunt w/ a Xbow, wrong for having an opinion that defies your exclusionist ideals and wrong for wanting to spend time in our woods w/ the stringed weapon of our choice. What do yu call 1000 people who are ranting and screaming out of 900,000 hunters who have chosen not to vote or express and opinion (see above description) radicals and ec-bownuts! Which the state of PA continually votes into office , listens to and responds to because we all no extremist organizations in PA are the norm, not the exception. There you are CO* a new name for your organization Ec-bownuts!
Bring back Sproul!
BZZZT! WRONG!!!
The crossbow is legal in 11 states (if you count PA) in all ofarchery season. 3 more are limited to a part of archery season (which is what Weaner has proposed) The other 36 restrict the crossbow to either theaged or disabled, to gun season or it is totally illegal as a hunting weapon. ( Outdoor life, April 2009 page 49)
Your bias clouds your judgement but it can't cloud the facts.
Pennsylvania has always taken a go slow approach to introducing weapon changes and new seasons. The question remains, why did this happen in the face of both a lack of science and an overwhelming negative response from hunters?
04-28-2009, 08:47 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
BTB, What is wrong with my statement, are Xbows not continually adding hunting opportunitites to there programs? I beleive MI and IL just added seasons.
Using your number ethics I am right on the money, they are in fact expanding Xbow use! PA which has had Xbows for a number of years for disabled and special area hunts is positioning itself to become a leader in the Xbow hnting areana, except for SOME Ec-bownuts, from a small percentage of the total hunting community complaining. So where is my logic using your number scheme wrong? So it was okay for a small group of physically handicapped people to use but now that some see the ethics of using a Xbow they are now poachers, slobs etc.? This goes right back to why I fight you guys, you are exclusionists who feel they should have the woods to themselves. You label me a X bow fanatic because I won't let you spout hate in regard to a sport or hunting technique. Put yourselves right alongside the Audobon society side as trying to exclude hunters that have the caability to physically keep up, hunt ethically, and shoot ethically from the forest, so you can have it to yourselves. If Xbows were making such high kills as some beleive, would not the special regs areas and disabled hunters be noted as high percentage kill areas in comparison to compound hunters? And if that were so, would they not limit the Xbow or eliminate the hunting in a special regs area? Bring Sproul Back!
Okay CO8 rescind the Xbow debate as you have proven to me and everyone on this site that your 1000 strong are right and the majoroity of the US (which is continually adding Xbow) that have Xbow hunting is wrong.
04-28-2009, 08:58 AM
#39
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 659
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Sorry, but that is a desperate arguement that just doesnt wash. The issue was all over the hunting media and the net. Just like the bonehead who doesnt vote but then complains about what politicians do, those who never took enough interest to participate simply don't count. Public comment was invited and there was a response. The issue was quite an active one in terms of the volume of the responses. There is no reason to think that there is any inaccuracy in the numbers.
Your demand to "prove it" is inappropriate and misdirected. If you wish to dispute the FACT that 90% of the response recieved was against the crossbow,YOU are the onewho bearsthe burden of proof.
ORIGINAL: the outsider
"So, if it were that easy, why didnt we do the bingo bango before ramming the xbow down the throats of the 90% who were against it?"
Here we go again with the 90% crap. A true representation of the hunters in PA? Prove it. It was just 90% of those who knew of, and responded to a proposal by the PGC. How many responded v total number ofhunters in PA?And my guess is that most were bowhunters being vocal, not the general hunting population in PA.
"So, if it were that easy, why didnt we do the bingo bango before ramming the xbow down the throats of the 90% who were against it?"
Here we go again with the 90% crap. A true representation of the hunters in PA? Prove it. It was just 90% of those who knew of, and responded to a proposal by the PGC. How many responded v total number ofhunters in PA?And my guess is that most were bowhunters being vocal, not the general hunting population in PA.
Your demand to "prove it" is inappropriate and misdirected. If you wish to dispute the FACT that 90% of the response recieved was against the crossbow,YOU are the onewho bearsthe burden of proof.
Well said, BTB. Why is it that so many choose to sit idly by and never let their voice be herad, in regards to politics and such other matters, then respond so loudly with whining and disdain when their voices are unaccounted for? Lord knows that you and I have had our disagreements, as has most every member of this board, and yet it all comes down to letting our voices be heard for better or for worse. If any hunter in PA strongly favored crossbows, but failed to make his sentimenmts known to the BOC or the legislators, then he/ she can blame no one but themselves. If the concensus view is that the vote had 90% opposition, than one has to really wonder whether that anyone can claim lack of representation. Surely in this day and age, everyone has equal access to the telephone, internet, or even the old reliable snail mail. If the feelings of those in favor were nearly as strong and united as those against, then their views would be accounted for. The glaring lack of affirmative support speaks for itself. Democracy sustains the majority vote. Thank God there is a trace of it left in the PGC.
04-28-2009, 11:37 AM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 3c pa
Posts: 1,212
RE: There is hope in PA. Crossbow not quite a done deal!!
what the heck. First allow them now they say ahh what a minute.I think they are pulling a (arlen spector)
I think they made there bed now they should lay in it.
I think they made there bed now they should lay in it.