RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

This isn't the only state with grouse Michigan has lots. We go to Trout lake in the U.P. Five per day limits and millions of acres of public land.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

"As deer numbers fall so will the success ratio,"

Doesnt make one bit of difference. SInce with a smaller herd, a proportionatelylower success ratio would effect the herd exactly the same as a higher success ratio would effect a larger herd. EIther way, with either herd size,added opportunities make tags more efficient and harvest more deer than wouldve been had otherwise within that same herd.

"I don't feel with the one and your done buck tag that you can kill to many bucks.Private land ,posted land and just un hunt-able acreage will protect enough to maintain breeding opportunities for the fittest."

Breeding "opportunities" imho, and according to pgc data isnt nor has ever beenaproblem. I was speakingof the fact that our buck quality, at best, ispretty poor, as its historically been.Adding to the buck harvest "opportunity"does nothing but lower it further still. I for one was not supportive of trading off even more buck numbers and quality for "crossguns". Or for that matter anything else that adds to the buck harvest.


"Its the uncontrolled doe harvest that concerns me.And falling hunter numbers might solve that too."

I agree that ALSO is a concern. The doe harvest could easily be controlledbut isnt being, and the hunter numbers imho would directly benefit.At the moment I simply cannot"root" for high hunter rate of decline so that hunting in Pa might actually get better, we've already lost our "voice" with pgc to the "treehuggers", and with far less hunters in the future, its only gonna get worse. Especially when there are much more reasonable and rational solutions that simply arent being utilized, and insteadPgc keeps throwing gas on the fire.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Thought it funny that a few of the hpa "shmoozers" were trying to smooth over the xgun vote with the ubp guys etc. by saying "noone won" and all this other rediculous b.s. (LOL) Because scopes wouldnt be legal. (LOL) Although crossbow inclusion enough was enough of a "hose job" imho, now I guess even by the hpa folks definition, the "hosing" is now non-debatable! (LOL)............

"Release #029-09

BOARD TAKES STEP TO REVERSE PROHIBITION ON MAGNIFYING SCOPES

The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners, in a notational vote, yesterday gave preliminary approval to a regulatory change that would allow hunters to use magnifying scopes on bows or crossbows during the archery deer and archery bear seasons.

At its January meeting, the Board gave final approval to a regulatory change to permit the use of crossbows in archery deer and bear seasons. Prior to that vote, however, the Board accepted an amendment to prohibit the use of magnifying scopes during the archery deer and bear seasons.

The agency has received significant public comment about that vote, the Board decided it would be appropriate to revisit this aspect of the recently approved use of crossbows in the states archery seasons, said Carl G. Roe, Game Commission executive director. This notational vote will require final adoption at a future meeting of the Board, and we are hoping to have that vote take place at the Boards scheduled public meeting in April.

The Board will meeting on April 20 and 21, in the auditorium of the agency's Harrisburg headquarters at 2001 Elmerton Ave., just off the Progress Avenue exit of Interstate 81 in Harrisburg. A copy of the agenda for the upcoming meeting will be posted on the agency's website prior to the meeting.

For more information, please visit the Pennsylvania Game Commission - State Wildlife Management Agency website: http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=11&Q=176116

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

That decision irritates me as well.Not allowing scopes made the full inclusion a little easier for me to swallow.However,once again,the legislatore promised to step in if the PGC didn't make the appropriate changes.Personally,I think there should be another vote because at least one commissioner voted for the inclusion as long as scopes were kept out.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Doug, this IS all pgcs baby. PERIOD. They voted for the damn crossguns NOT LEGISLATORS and they are reneg-ing on the scope deal. And until you can show me how pgc has "gotten around" the DEMANDS of the legislators as well as the hunters who have DEMANDED the deer program be fixed, yet it hasnt.... THEN and ONLY THEN will I even consider for a second the possibility the legislators are completely to blame. PGC has effectively gotten out of their influece on much larger much more controversial issues. They did what they did for reasons that many are quite aware of. Crossbows...and yes, crossbows with scopes will kill more deer and sell more tags. If they wanted us to ever believe LEGISLATORS are responsible for ANY decisions, then it would be quite clear if they made THEIR DECISION stood by it, and let the legislators do as they may. But that wasnt the case, Pgc has voted THEIR OWN decisions. Carl Roe stated in the press release that they had been hearing from hunters on the issue and that was the reason. But since when have they cared about "hunters"? They havent at all all along with the deer plan, and they didnt with the input of hunters on the crossbow deal.... Also the few legislators DID NOT effect the votes of BOOP and a couple of the other commissioners. SO either they actually care about HUNTERS or perhaps they arent cowards? Im guessing a bit of both.

As for the revote, I wouldnt expect it to happen and if it did. Would make things a helluva lot more interesting though! (LOL) Pallone and Schleiden just couldnt get their antideer antihunter arses out of the commission fast enough. Had to kick us one last time on their way out the door.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

I disagree with you on this one Corny, if opportunities stay the same. Hypothetically:

If 1 million hunters arehunting an availablelegal buck population of 100,000in 2008 and the following year the same 1 million hunters are hunting an available buck population of 50,000, you don't think the success ratio will change?

Am I looking at this incorrectly?

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

YEs, I do think the success rate would decline. But The resulting herdpreseason the FOLLOWING year would still befar lower than it had been the first year with 100,000.

Also what I was saying you apparently didnt understand. Even if hunter success rate declined....With fewer buck, just as many or more could be killed from the herd percentagewise.

100 hunters hunting 100 deer with a 20% success rate would harvest more deer than those same 100 hunters hunting 90 deer with say a 17% success rate. But the second scenario even though lower success rate, would actually take a bigger percentage of its startingbuck herd.


Of course That isnt nearly as important as the fact that if you already are killing the desired amount of deer to stabilize the herd, or worse, killing more than necessary to do so, you dont add to the efficiency of tag usage by adding opportunities even further.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

When they originally made the decision to allow the use of crossbows, I never really understood the reasoning for not allowing scopes with magnification. To me, it just didn't make any sense and I didn't understand the logic.

A word of advice for some of you fellows. You need to forget about this. If vertical bows are your thing, then you need to do your thing. Get out there and hunt with your compound or your recurve and forget about what the other guy might be using. Really, you need to live and let live. There is nothing you are going to do to change the situtation. It is out of your control. Getting angry about it doesn't change anything. Who wants to be angry all the time? Do what makes you happy. Grab your bow and go hunting and forget about the rest.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

It was the lawmakers in Harrisburg that made the Game Commission change back to magnifying scopes. They felt people who had been using them under their disabled permit,shouldn't have to give them up. It was Dave Schreffler, who gave up his no vote if they didn't alloy magnifying scopes. He was also the one that sold the support for the sunset provision. But like maverick stated, I think it's time to just move on.[/align]

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

its just too EARLY for crossbows yet.

aug will be on fire this year.

most of compound owners i talk too are changing to crossbow.i expect more BIGBUCKS killed by kids with crossbow that their dads let them use:eek:.i wont go into that one:)

thats hard to swallow too, they have over 700 in just those compound bows.

most like idea of not pulling bow back and having a 4 power scope on it.

most are waiting to see if 4 power scopes will be legal after april meeting.

but biggest weapon is still the IN-LINE in october.
i dont care for those in-lines during archery,they scout for doe meat weekbefore in-line weekand spook the buck i am hunting.[:@]

it used to be nice hunting archery and you could pattern a buck on SFL,not now.[:@]

just ruins about 2 weeks of archery for me.