Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Just a thought guys. My shop is selling a ton of compounds right now, especially to new guys. Only a few calls so far on crossbows. I realize this is only one shop and maybe the flood of crossbows won't get sold until September.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Could it be that the kind of hunter that many of us worried about, (those looking for a shortcut) have already gotten their crossbow with one of those 63,000 disabled permits?

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

You might not be tofar off with that statement.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

If so, that would mean that my concerns were unfounded. Boy would I be happy to be proven to have been wrong on this one!:D

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

That would be good btb but you have to remember our archery season is still a long way off. And with online
shopping now days i am willing to bet alot will buy their new bows online . I dont go to the local sporting goods
store much anymore

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Yeah you're right. But just like with that 180" 12 pointer, we can dream can't we?;)

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Ah,monster bucks everywhere and nobody but vertical bowhunters pursuing them! Dang alarm clock,not now! [/align]

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

I think I'll wait a few more years, then I'll be able to use my in-line in archery season to get a buck. Right now I'm allowed to use my in-line for seven days to shoot a doe and the last three days I can use my center fire rifle, if I choose to do so.

I really don't understand why the in-line season includes two weekends, worse yet, is that center fire three days with all the leaves on the trees, for Junior and Senior hunters.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Yep..if I eat crow I'll be smiling on every bite.
The mad rush will happen in August/Sept, is my hunch though.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

I worked the Kinsey's Archery Products dealer show this weekend in Hershey and every dealer I talked to said they are selling very well, taking orders and expect it to get even better.
They were the talk of the show and the crossbow booths were busy the whole time from what i saw.

I know I wore out my vocal chords going over the Strykeforce for everyone from the dealer who never saw one to reps from the PA Game Commission who were in attendance.

There were also shooting booths available to try the new 10Pts, Hortons, Excalibur, Parker and Barnetts. We couldn't allow anyone to shoot the Strykeforce because the 20" deep Block full wall range targets wouldn't hold them and we'd shoot holes in the Hershey Convention center walls.

In any event crossbow talk was brisk and from what I hear as feedback from our dealers they expect to sell a ton of Strykeforces to PA. I already know there are a bunch out there and more on the way but I cannot divulge actual sales numbers.
The bottom line is that the high performance ones will be well represented this archery season and when the word gets out and guys really start to get educated as to performance and how it relates from model to model that number will pick up greatly.

Remember too the traditional "buying season" for each year is August and September.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

That is my prediction.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

As por MOI, I don't have a dog in this fight.. I hunt PA every year, but I don't bowhunt...

However, I suspect that you anti crossbow guys might be surprised at what a "non-event" the Xbow regulation may prove to be... Pa isn't the first state or province to legalize them...

Reminds me a couple of years ago when several rural upstate NY Counties that had always been shotgun only legalized rifles for the gun season..

Naysayers were tearing out thier hair, biting thier fingernails and gnashing thier teeth...

Been two seasons now and nobody has noticed much difference, other than the fact that we tend to hear single shots now instead of five shot volleys from pumpkin slingers when everyone was using shotguns..

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

You heard similar comments a couple years ago when Illinois decided to allow anyone 62 or over to use a crossbow. Two years afterward, they are convening meetings to consider how to deal with an overpopulation of deer. Its not been a big deal in any other states, it won't be a big deal in PA, although I am confident that some folks here will claim otherwise.:D

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

I had a harder time understanding the logic of adding a ML season in the middle of archery, allowing the use of in-lines with magnified sights. In-lines are a modern weapon with comparable accuracy and range of some centerfire rifles. Why not allow all centerfire rifles? Why another antlerlessseason? I'm sure it was sold as another hunting opportunity. I suspect it was another opportunity for $. If it was, just tell us.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Exactly right, money maker on the inline season. Our crew will not hunt it, waste of money and time to take time off from work to hunt doe!!

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

just wait until your allowed to hunt bucks,,,you'll probably never pick up another bow!

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

I tend to agree that the kind we were concerned about won't bother till September and the last week will likely be the big selling week for crossbows.

The guys buying bows now are most likely the ones that intend to practice all year to be ready and if a crossbow guy is buying now so that he can properly prepare for the season then I would say say welcome to a new fellow bowhunter. He'd be demonstrating the right mindset and commitment to becoming an ethical bowhunter.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Totally agree.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Can you say [ 2 less weeks of archery season]!!!!


Hatchet Jack

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

BTB, good point and good post. Though, I still have trouble calling them "bowhunters". :D Hunters yes, not bowhunters.

Sorry, with crossbows combined with everything the PA Gameless Commission has blatently screwed up on lately, I'm to a point now where I couldn't care less what they do or even listen to them anymore.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

[:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

As long as PA stays a one buck state what difference does the seasons make? We have basically two months to kill a buck,hell I don't care if you chose to tag a road kill,as long as it stays one and your done.[8D]

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Jim,if the number of pre-rut bucks being killedincreases,there is a potential that we'll lose the rut.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

I can see that happening,so move the season back two weeks. Its to hot to be deer hunting the first two weeks of October any way.;)A smart man would be grouse hunting anyway.:)

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

And if we are getting to the point where regeneration allows for some increase in deer numbers we can absorb an increase in buck harvest.
I see a decrease in hunter numbers in the near future,and I think the drop will be dramatic as we age as a group.
When a camp owner dies or just quits hunting so do the other members.I don't see interest in todays hunting increasing any time soon.
And I might be a minority on this but I see no reason in the world to have this mentored youth hunts without limitations, a six year old has no reason to kill a deer except to please his father.These kids will burn out at 14 and we will loose them also.[:@]

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

That didn't happen in 2B and 5c where 50% of the bucks that are harvested are harvested during archery. The archery buck harvest is directly related to the human population in an area, so many less developed WMUs aren't like;y to see a significant increase.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

"As long as PA stays a one buck state what difference does the seasons make? We have basically two months to kill a buck,hell I don't care if you chose to tag a road kill,as long as it stays one and your done"

With over 900,000 hunters, you hafta watch the amount of "opportunity". Doesnt matter one bit that there is only one buck tag apiece. Our buck numbers and age structure arent exactly stellar due to the high harvest level, and thats with only a 10-15% hunter success rate on buck.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

As deer numbers fall so will the success ratio, I don't feel with the one and your done buck tag that you can kill to many bucks.Private land ,posted land and just un hunt-able acreage will protect enough to maintain breeding opportunities for the fittest.
Its the uncontrolled doe harvest that concerns me.And falling hunter numbers might solve that too.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Bend over UBP, they are going to allow scopes.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Where are you hunting grouse during the first two weeks of Oct? Doesn't grouse typically open on the third Saturday? Also with so many of our archery bucks killed closer to the rut, I don't think a delayed start would save that many buck. Eliminating the last two weeks of archery would no doubt save a ton, but who wants to get rid of the most exciting hunting of the year, anyway? With proper preparation, the hot weather bowhunting is not a problem. You have to work quickly and cool the carcass asap. You can't hang your deer outside for a couple days before butchering. You just have to have a plan in effect before you kill one. I process all my own deer, always have, but in today's times most guys take their deer to a butcher, so that isn't even a problem for them. Our hunting neighbors in southern states know all about this. It's nearly always warm during their bow seasons. It's the only thing they know.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

This isn't the only state with grouse Michigan has lots. We go to Trout lake in the U.P. Five per day limits and millions of acres of public land.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

"As deer numbers fall so will the success ratio,"

Doesnt make one bit of difference. SInce with a smaller herd, a proportionatelylower success ratio would effect the herd exactly the same as a higher success ratio would effect a larger herd. EIther way, with either herd size,added opportunities make tags more efficient and harvest more deer than wouldve been had otherwise within that same herd.

"I don't feel with the one and your done buck tag that you can kill to many bucks.Private land ,posted land and just un hunt-able acreage will protect enough to maintain breeding opportunities for the fittest."

Breeding "opportunities" imho, and according to pgc data isnt nor has ever beenaproblem. I was speakingof the fact that our buck quality, at best, ispretty poor, as its historically been.Adding to the buck harvest "opportunity"does nothing but lower it further still. I for one was not supportive of trading off even more buck numbers and quality for "crossguns". Or for that matter anything else that adds to the buck harvest.


"Its the uncontrolled doe harvest that concerns me.And falling hunter numbers might solve that too."

I agree that ALSO is a concern. The doe harvest could easily be controlledbut isnt being, and the hunter numbers imho would directly benefit.At the moment I simply cannot"root" for high hunter rate of decline so that hunting in Pa might actually get better, we've already lost our "voice" with pgc to the "treehuggers", and with far less hunters in the future, its only gonna get worse. Especially when there are much more reasonable and rational solutions that simply arent being utilized, and insteadPgc keeps throwing gas on the fire.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Thought it funny that a few of the hpa "shmoozers" were trying to smooth over the xgun vote with the ubp guys etc. by saying "noone won" and all this other rediculous b.s. (LOL) Because scopes wouldnt be legal. (LOL) Although crossbow inclusion enough was enough of a "hose job" imho, now I guess even by the hpa folks definition, the "hosing" is now non-debatable! (LOL)............

"Release #029-09

BOARD TAKES STEP TO REVERSE PROHIBITION ON MAGNIFYING SCOPES

The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners, in a notational vote, yesterday gave preliminary approval to a regulatory change that would allow hunters to use magnifying scopes on bows or crossbows during the archery deer and archery bear seasons.

At its January meeting, the Board gave final approval to a regulatory change to permit the use of crossbows in archery deer and bear seasons. Prior to that vote, however, the Board accepted an amendment to prohibit the use of magnifying scopes during the archery deer and bear seasons.

The agency has received significant public comment about that vote, the Board decided it would be appropriate to revisit this aspect of the recently approved use of crossbows in the states archery seasons, said Carl G. Roe, Game Commission executive director. This notational vote will require final adoption at a future meeting of the Board, and we are hoping to have that vote take place at the Boards scheduled public meeting in April.

The Board will meeting on April 20 and 21, in the auditorium of the agency's Harrisburg headquarters at 2001 Elmerton Ave., just off the Progress Avenue exit of Interstate 81 in Harrisburg. A copy of the agenda for the upcoming meeting will be posted on the agency's website prior to the meeting.

For more information, please visit the Pennsylvania Game Commission - State Wildlife Management Agency website: http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=11&Q=176116

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

That decision irritates me as well.Not allowing scopes made the full inclusion a little easier for me to swallow.However,once again,the legislatore promised to step in if the PGC didn't make the appropriate changes.Personally,I think there should be another vote because at least one commissioner voted for the inclusion as long as scopes were kept out.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

Doug, this IS all pgcs baby. PERIOD. They voted for the damn crossguns NOT LEGISLATORS and they are reneg-ing on the scope deal. And until you can show me how pgc has "gotten around" the DEMANDS of the legislators as well as the hunters who have DEMANDED the deer program be fixed, yet it hasnt.... THEN and ONLY THEN will I even consider for a second the possibility the legislators are completely to blame. PGC has effectively gotten out of their influece on much larger much more controversial issues. They did what they did for reasons that many are quite aware of. Crossbows...and yes, crossbows with scopes will kill more deer and sell more tags. If they wanted us to ever believe LEGISLATORS are responsible for ANY decisions, then it would be quite clear if they made THEIR DECISION stood by it, and let the legislators do as they may. But that wasnt the case, Pgc has voted THEIR OWN decisions. Carl Roe stated in the press release that they had been hearing from hunters on the issue and that was the reason. But since when have they cared about "hunters"? They havent at all all along with the deer plan, and they didnt with the input of hunters on the crossbow deal.... Also the few legislators DID NOT effect the votes of BOOP and a couple of the other commissioners. SO either they actually care about HUNTERS or perhaps they arent cowards? Im guessing a bit of both.

As for the revote, I wouldnt expect it to happen and if it did. Would make things a helluva lot more interesting though! (LOL) Pallone and Schleiden just couldnt get their antideer antihunter arses out of the commission fast enough. Had to kick us one last time on their way out the door.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

I disagree with you on this one Corny, if opportunities stay the same. Hypothetically:

If 1 million hunters arehunting an availablelegal buck population of 100,000in 2008 and the following year the same 1 million hunters are hunting an available buck population of 50,000, you don't think the success ratio will change?

Am I looking at this incorrectly?

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

YEs, I do think the success rate would decline. But The resulting herdpreseason the FOLLOWING year would still befar lower than it had been the first year with 100,000.

Also what I was saying you apparently didnt understand. Even if hunter success rate declined....With fewer buck, just as many or more could be killed from the herd percentagewise.

100 hunters hunting 100 deer with a 20% success rate would harvest more deer than those same 100 hunters hunting 90 deer with say a 17% success rate. But the second scenario even though lower success rate, would actually take a bigger percentage of its startingbuck herd.


Of course That isnt nearly as important as the fact that if you already are killing the desired amount of deer to stabilize the herd, or worse, killing more than necessary to do so, you dont add to the efficiency of tag usage by adding opportunities even further.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

When they originally made the decision to allow the use of crossbows, I never really understood the reasoning for not allowing scopes with magnification. To me, it just didn't make any sense and I didn't understand the logic.

A word of advice for some of you fellows. You need to forget about this. If vertical bows are your thing, then you need to do your thing. Get out there and hunt with your compound or your recurve and forget about what the other guy might be using. Really, you need to live and let live. There is nothing you are going to do to change the situtation. It is out of your control. Getting angry about it doesn't change anything. Who wants to be angry all the time? Do what makes you happy. Grab your bow and go hunting and forget about the rest.

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

It was the lawmakers in Harrisburg that made the Game Commission change back to magnifying scopes. They felt people who had been using them under their disabled permit,shouldn't have to give them up. It was Dave Schreffler, who gave up his no vote if they didn't alloy magnifying scopes. He was also the one that sold the support for the sunset provision. But like maverick stated, I think it's time to just move on.[/align]

RE: Maybe Crossbows won't be that big....
 

its just too EARLY for crossbows yet.

aug will be on fire this year.

most of compound owners i talk too are changing to crossbow.i expect more BIGBUCKS killed by kids with crossbow that their dads let them use:eek:.i wont go into that one:)

thats hard to swallow too, they have over 700 in just those compound bows.

most like idea of not pulling bow back and having a 4 power scope on it.

most are waiting to see if 4 power scopes will be legal after april meeting.

but biggest weapon is still the IN-LINE in october.
i dont care for those in-lines during archery,they scout for doe meat weekbefore in-line weekand spook the buck i am hunting.[:@]

it used to be nice hunting archery and you could pattern a buck on SFL,not now.[:@]

just ruins about 2 weeks of archery for me.