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ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

No crossbow for me, until I'm too old or crippled up for a compound or recurve. Then I will most assuredly make the switch rather than give up my bow season. And that's the way it oughtto be. That's all I'll say on that matter, as for this yearI willl be carying my new Bowtech and splitting time with an old bear Kodiak recurve for nostalgia's sake, and promptly rebuking any healthy young fella I see toting a crossbow who doesn't need one.

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ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

No crossbow for me, until I'm too old or crippled up for a compound or recurve. Then I will most assuredly make the switch rather than give up my bow season. And that's the way it oughtto be. That's all I'll say on that matter, as for this yearI willl be carying my new Bowtech and splitting time with an old bear Kodiak recurve for nostalgia's sake, and promptly rebuking any healthy young fella I see toting a crossbow who doesn't need one.

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ORIGINAL: bowtruck

promptly rebuking any healthy young fella go ahead i would tell
you where youcould go not so nicely then follow you around the woods
passing gas and making sure you had a good fun day not seeing deer
since i would releave myself by your tree cough gag talk anything

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ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

AndI would promptly kick your A. You see,I am YOUNG and STRONG and HEALTHY.... and if you are as well, then you should be using a trad orcompound, oryou are just a weak excuse for a hunter if you have to use a xbow 'cause you need that advantage to get your buck. The PGC lit this stinkbomb. They should have never passed that vote and made it legal. If they legalize fully auto rifles, I'm sure you fellas will rush out and buy one to up your odds of hitting something. If you fit that category, you dseerve a rebuking. Try and see past the antlers in your face and realize that the PGC made a huge mistake in making legal a weapon that ethics should tell you should be reserved for elderly and handicap. My compound bow is plenty deadly. We don't need any more advantages in archery season. Period. But go ahead if that is what you need to help you get a buck and feel good about yourself this year.

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ORIGINAL: bawanajim

Alright already I see we have three admitted red commie traders out there set on destroying whats left of PA great deer hunting traditions.[:-]
The rest of you guys seem OK though.;)

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ORIGINAL: the outsider

As Bugs Bunny once said, "what a maroon". Don't whine unless you're hunting with a longbow or a recurve. Compound bowswith pin sights and stabilizers are a long way from the primitive weapon season that was archery season.

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ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

AndI would promptly kick your A. You see,I am YOUNG and STRONG and HEALTHY.... and if you are as well, then you should be using a trad orcompound, oryou are just a weak excuse for a hunter if you have to use a xbow 'cause you need that advantage to get your buck. The PGC lit this stinkbomb. They should have never passed that vote and made it legal. If they legalize fully auto rifles, I'm sure you fellas will rush out and buy one to up your odds of hitting something. If you fit that category, you dseerve a rebuking. Try and see past the antlers in your face and realize that the PGC made a huge mistake in making legal a weapon that ethics should tell you should be reserved for elderly and handicap. My compound bow is plenty deadly. We don't need any more advantages in archery season. Period. But go ahead if that is what you need to help you get a buck and feel good about yourself this year.

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ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

AndI would promptly kick your A. You see,I am YOUNG and STRONG and HEALTHY.... and if you are as well, then you should be using a trad orcompound, oryou are just a weak excuse for a hunter if you have to use a xbow 'cause you need that advantage to get your buck. The PGC lit this stinkbomb. They should have never passed that vote and made it legal. If they legalize fully auto rifles, I'm sure you fellas will rush out and buy one to up your odds of hitting something. If you fit that category, you dseerve a rebuking. Try and see past the antlers in your face and realize that the PGC made a huge mistake in making legal a weapon that ethics should tell you should be reserved for elderly and handicap. My compound bow is plenty deadly. We don't need any more advantages in archery season. Period. But go ahead if that is what you need to help you get a buck and feel good about yourself this year.

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ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

No crossbow for me, until I'm too old or crippled up for a compound or recurve. Then I will most assuredly make the switch rather than give up my bow season. And that's the way it oughtto be. That's all I'll say on that matter, as for this yearI willl be carying my new Bowtech and splitting time with an old bear Kodiak recurve for nostalgia's sake, and promptly rebuking any healthy young fella I see toting a crossbow who doesn't need one.

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ORIGINAL: rem700man

BtBow:
Over the years i have come to respect you as a pretty good hunter from reading your posts,,,i have come to the conclusion that you are into this thing just about as much as i am,,,and i also agree that we tend to disagree on some issues,,,so im asking you as 1 hunter to another,,,,why do you guys really disagree with the x-bow being a legitimate weapon during archery season,,,i dont understand the complaints,,,are you really worried about the ethics of the shot with some hunters,,,,is it the poaching thing,,,what exactly is it that ya'll despise about x-bows. They have been legal here in Va. for i think 5 yrs and i still know no one that uses them during season,,and i hunt alot of public land and i hav'nt seen 1 guy with a x-bow,,but then again,,,it's also legal to use semi-automatic rifles here and i see no one with a semi. I have shot x-bows quite extensively in the back yard with a few friends and no matter what guys like ole sproul say,,,their really not 3 shot 1 hole shooters @ 20 yds,,,so i dont think thats the issue. So enlighten me on the reasons why x-bows should not be legal in Pa. during the hunting season. Might i add honest answers

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ORIGINAL: rem700man

BtBow:
Over the years i have come to respect you as a pretty good hunter from reading your posts,,,i have come to the conclusion that you are into this thing just about as much as i am,,,and i also agree that we tend to disagree on some issues,,,so im asking you as 1 hunter to another,,,,why do you guys really disagree with the x-bow being a legitimate weapon during archery season,,,i dont understand the complaints,,,are you really worried about the ethics of the shot with some hunters,,,,is it the poaching thing,,,what exactly is it that ya'll despise about x-bows. They have been legal here in Va. for i think 5 yrs and i still know no one that uses them during season,,and i hunt alot of public land and i hav'nt seen 1 guy with a x-bow,,but then again,,,it's also legal to use semi-automatic rifles here and i see no one with a semi. I have shot x-bows quite extensively in the back yard with a few friends and no matter what guys like ole sproul say,,,their really not 3 shot 1 hole shooters @ 20 yds,,,so i dont think thats the issue. So enlighten me on the reasons why x-bows should not be legal in Pa. during the hunting season. Might i add honest answers

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so steel your the boss its up to you who can and cant use a xbow
you decide if we need anymore advantages
who said to shoot a buck heck i get doe tags too
imo people like you are scared that your archery skill are not up to par
and dont want anymore compation to bad you got it
oh yea about you kicking my A not worth a responce
already can see you are a sore loser

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ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

I know exactly the limits of my skillset...both with my recurve and my compound. Both were aquired through countless hours spent on the range in preparation for that perfect opportunity. Archery is an aquired skill, and the right to hunt with a bow is EARNED through your profficiency,not given by the law. I'll take your endowment of the title of sore loser and wear it with pride. Because I won't be taking the easy way out of bow practice this year, just because the idiots in Harrisburg want to increase the deer harvest and supplement their lean pocketbooks. My problemlies not with the weapon itself, but in it's inclusion in the archery season. It has been said already many times that anyone should be able to develop profficiency with a compound given today's technology....aside from elderly and cripples. The ones seeking to benefit from this the most are the lazy hunters who lack the discipline to adhere to the degree of pratice required of vertical bows. By their own character, those kind were greatly limited up until this point to rifle season and possibly ML seasons. Not that there are not some bowhunters out there that lack profficiency, but in my experience, their ultimate lack of success -relevant to their lack of practice and discipline, dissuades them after a few years and they go back to slinging lead after Thanksgiving. The other group that concerns me is the moderately successful bowhunter whose lust for antlers leads him to buy the Xbow hoping it somehow compensates for his weaknesses and past failures. This group gets no respect from me...or any other bowhunter worth his salt. Rest assured that I am a man who speaks his mind...especially on the topic of ethics. I have no fear speaking my mind face to face and I willgive any otherwise capable hunter I see carrying a crossbow the same lecture. If they react in manner described by Bowtruck and others....they just confirmed their own guilty conscience. But hey, if the shoe fits....And I wouldn't fear any physical confrontation with such a fella. Like I said before, if he isn't elderly or crippled, he is obviously to much of a wimp for archery anyway. Not too worried about what a guy could do to me that lacks the simple discipline to shoot his bow on a regular basis and become profficient with it! If any of you are still on the fence with the xbows, don't do it. If you are enamored with the weapon, use one in ML or gun season. Don't be a weasel and take the easy way in archery season.

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ORIGINAL: blkpowder

rem700: I would like express my reason why I voted no if I may? I think Archery season "may," my opinion, turn into a cousin of gun season. Again maybe. Since I only hunt public ground,my concerns are "if", a growing number jump onto this bandwagon, my solitude that I enjoy "might" come to an end? I know, everyone has a right to be in those woods. But I just seem to draw the most ignorant people when I used to rifle hunt. That's why I quit almost 30yrs ago. You know what I mean, hunters who leave their proper etiquette at home when it comes to bagging a deer. This is my only concern! Believe me, if that hunter wants to us a spear,crowbar, what ever his choice? And they are enjoying themselves,God Bless them!
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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

First of all, thanks! It's always good to talk to guys that are as nutzo about deer hunting as I am;)

Fair enough question. If you look back over some of the crossbow threads prior to this recent vote, you'll find that my position on the crossbow as a weaponhad come around to being basically neutral. I've owned one since they were legalized for gun season. I have access to places where gun hunting simply isn't permitted and use the thing in the gun season in those spots sometimes.

It has pro's and cons. The two big pro's being that it doesnt need to be drawn in the presence of the game and it can be shot from a far wider range of body positions. By the time our gun season is a half day old, most every deer in PA knows the deal. Getting into bow (any bow) range at that point is a bit tougher than it was in October and through the rut. At that point in the season, not having to draw in front of those nervous eyes can be a big advantage over a vertical bow. It's also a weapon that can be shot lying on you belly. Something we occasionally do to hide in tight spots when doing small drives through tight areas.

On the other hand, there are cons to the crossbow. It's noisy.Being a shorter projectile,a crossbow bolt is actaully far less stable than a conventional arrow in flight. Accuracy comes easier at short ranges but only to a point. A good vertical bow archer will outshoot a crossbow guy far more often. When shot without a rest, it is actually far less accurate then a vertical bow in most hands. It is front heavy and unweildy to carry. I sincerely doubt that many healthy archers will switch and stay switched. I would bet that many of those that change to the xbow will quickly change back.

As I said, the weapon was not the issue for me. My concern was that the perception out there among non archers seems to be "now I can get a crossbow and it will be like gun hunting in the rut" or some similiar thought.

My worry was and still is that we'll experience a wave of new hunters that, till now, wouldnt put in the time it takes to be an effective, responsible, archery hunter. I'm worried about the gang that will simply plunk down the cash a week or less before the season and stomp on out there and probaly take irresponsible shots etc etc.

I had actually said several times that I could support the inclusion of the xbow if it came with a mandatory bowhunter ed requirement for ALL new bowhunters. Granted, there are vertical bow hunters out there that have no business being in the woods but I worry that the percieved ease of the crossbow will tend to attract those that till now would have been too lazy to make the commitment necessary to effectively bowhunt.

Theother big problem I have is with how it was done here.The vote seemed like a big bold F___ you in the faces of the 90% majority of hunters who wrote in opposition. Regardless of where I happen to stand on the issue, the BOC voted against 90% of the hunters who felt strongly enough about the issue to write. Personally, had there been a bowhunter ed requirement with it I'd have been OK with it but the BOC didn't act properly based on the wishes of their constituents.

Something else I learned only recently was thatroughly63,000 crossbow permits are out there now. That MAY, be an inication that the guys looking for the easy way have already gone to their doc, said "my shoulder hurts, please sign this paper" and got their crossbow permit.
It could be that the horse was already out of the barn.

The last thing I'llsay about HOW it was done is that I'd have liked to see a more gradual introduction.The sheer numbers we have here calls for caution when any new way to kill deer is introduced especially in these times.

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ORIGINAL: bluebird2

That is a very good attitude and I give you a lot of credit for that. But ,why can't you extend the same type of courtesy to me on the MBs.

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The ball is squarely in your court. Dont attack and I wont counter attack. Stop distorting everything especially other peoples posts and have a fair intelligent debate where every side has both good points and bad and everyone can be wrong from time to time as well as right from time to time

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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

Have it your way. I offered a way out. You apparently don't want civil threads. BTW your suggestion that you have exchanges with Doug and RSB and dont attack is BS. You constantly attempt to demean and undermine and that is no less a personal attack than any of the other tactics. I'll continue to say that I can play either way but if attacked, I will counter attack and simple disagreements are not the issue here and you know it full well.

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Have it your way. I offered a way out. You apparently don't want civil threads. I'll continue to say that I can play either way but if attacked, I will counter attack and simple disagreements are not the issue here and you know it full well.

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ORIGINAL: bluebird2

No, the ball is in your court. I have demonstrated in my debates with RSB ,Doug E and others that I will engage anyone without resorting to insults and personal attacks. I may disagree and tell you that you are wrong and don't know what you are talking about, but that is not a personal attack ,that is anyway comparable to your name calling and constant accusations of lying.

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ORIGINAL: CCPaHunter

Are you kidding me? Please refer to Pa Flintlock / Late Season 12/23/08 WhereI voiced a concern aboutusing climbing sticks and how to use a safety harness while doing so. Sproul and BTBvoiced concern for my safety but you had to come back with" Be a real hunter and huntat ground level and you won't have to worry about killing yourself for a deer." You arrogant SOBwith your Superior attitude. How I wished for aface to face. To "discuss" your comment.;)

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