What to do with the crossbows.
02-05-2009, 05:07 PM
#61
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: What to do with the crossbows.
"Here's a better idea.... put your whiney ass in the car and go there to hunt if things are so much better there! Maybe you and slick Willie can share a duck blind LOL HA HA HA LOL "
I see noone other than you whining. Im simply making realistic factual comparisons. You on the other hand will try to say ANYTHING to support the concept of funding and more cash for the gameless commission even though our state is already paying around average prices and has subpar hunting.
If you went in a duckblind with "slickwillie" there'd be so much lying going on inside it'd probably get struck by lightning! (LOL)
I see noone other than you whining. Im simply making realistic factual comparisons. You on the other hand will try to say ANYTHING to support the concept of funding and more cash for the gameless commission even though our state is already paying around average prices and has subpar hunting.
If you went in a duckblind with "slickwillie" there'd be so much lying going on inside it'd probably get struck by lightning! (LOL)
02-05-2009, 05:16 PM
#63
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: What to do with the crossbows.
There are more than one I listed less, and there are some more than a dollar. My point is, we are right in line with what most states are paying. The thirty something they are asking for ISNT.
Dont knock it bro. Quality sucks, but its a fun stint. Crazy habitat and lots of hogs!!
Your a liar. Ive said on every post DEER hunting.
Remember we are talking resident license fees. And as a resident its much easier to gain access than a nonresident. We could also call it a wash, since the public land here is very lackluster.
02-05-2009, 05:23 PM
#64
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: What to do with the crossbows.
"You can go on and on but you cant find anything in our area that offers as much for any less than PA. "
Sure I can, and I did. Not only offering as much but offering MORE.
You can, and most people do, hunt them WHILE DEER HUNTING. They also didnt add to the price of either state, pa or Fla.
"Once again, you have no idea just how clueless you are about Illinois. I suggest you try to tell an Illinois resident how easy it is to get a place to hunt out there LOL HA HA HA "
If I lived there, as I do here, Id have places to hunt. That simple. Id most likely get permission from others, and most likely know the best areas within the public lands. REmember, we are talking RESIDENTS, who live there their entire lives. Not a 5 day visit. And Illinois was just ONE of many states I listed...And there are many others as well... Didnt feel the need to go much further as Im sure you got the point.
Sure I can, and I did. Not only offering as much but offering MORE.
"Tell you what, I'll just answer that with another quote from you"
[blockquote]quote:
Your a liar. Ive said on every post DEER hunting.
[/blockquote]
"Oh, I guess you meant till it suited you to do otherwise?"
[blockquote]quote:
Your a liar. Ive said on every post DEER hunting.
[/blockquote]
"Oh, I guess you meant till it suited you to do otherwise?"
"Once again, you have no idea just how clueless you are about Illinois. I suggest you try to tell an Illinois resident how easy it is to get a place to hunt out there LOL HA HA HA "
If I lived there, as I do here, Id have places to hunt. That simple. Id most likely get permission from others, and most likely know the best areas within the public lands. REmember, we are talking RESIDENTS, who live there their entire lives. Not a 5 day visit. And Illinois was just ONE of many states I listed...And there are many others as well... Didnt feel the need to go much further as Im sure you got the point.
02-05-2009, 05:28 PM
#65
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: What to do with the crossbows.
Yep, I'm talking residents too. I got quite a few Ill residents that are good friends and unless you own ground, or are family, its very likely that you're gonna pay to hunt. It's a different world out there.
The bottomline is that you could Bluebird the comparisons all day long but heres a list that isn't disputable
PA has as much and usually more public land per hunter than anyeastern or midwestern state.
Every neighboring state charges their resident adults more for the same privileges afforded by the PA basic adult resident license.
No matter what year, or average of years in the past 20, Pa has always ranked at or near thetop for deer harvested persquare mile
Pa is the undisputed number one state for the biggest black bears
Pa has outstanding turkey hunting and doesnt charge an extra penny for this privelege for both spring and fall
The bottomline is that you could Bluebird the comparisons all day long but heres a list that isn't disputable
PA has as much and usually more public land per hunter than anyeastern or midwestern state.
Every neighboring state charges their resident adults more for the same privileges afforded by the PA basic adult resident license.
No matter what year, or average of years in the past 20, Pa has always ranked at or near thetop for deer harvested persquare mile
Pa is the undisputed number one state for the biggest black bears
Pa has outstanding turkey hunting and doesnt charge an extra penny for this privelege for both spring and fall
02-05-2009, 05:30 PM
#66
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: What to do with the crossbows.
Ive read the large tract (cantremember if it were state ornational forest) in southern tip of Ill. was pretty good by public land standards.
"PA has as much and usually more public land per hunter than anyeastern or midwestern state."
There are other states that have a TON. And when you compare they dont have nearly the hunter numbers to compete. Also, Pas public land is for the most part, largely a joke thanks to the deer plan...as is much of the unposted private.
"Every neighboring state charges their resident adults more for the same privileges afforded by the PA basic adult resident license. "
And you could take some of those and turn it right back around and say if you compare some of their base licenses and what they include, you'd pay more in Pa trying to make up the diff.... Thats why I said deer hunting only. No nonsense and fact manipulation.
Pas deer hunting sucks.
Pa has poor public land hunting.
Pa has a horrible game management agency.
"Pa is the undisputed number one state for the biggest black bears "
And pa requires an additional stamp. So that says NOTHING of what we get for our base license fee.
"Pa has outstanding turkey hunting and doesnt charge an extra penny for this privelege for both spring and fall "
Actually Ive hunted several eastern and southern states, and currently ours is quite average. Lots of states with tons of birds. IN fact, the flock has declined significantly here in the sw.pa. The fall season has even been cut because of it.
And since you throw in turkey on base licensenonsense, we're right back to a "wash" since Fla, Ga, SC, and others offer wild boar, some states offer furbearers, and other critters.
Pa is "average" pricewise. I could say very well that we're overcharged judging by the extremely low hunter satisfaction and the poor deer hunting. But I'll concede "average" because the base license is exactly that, falling in the normal range......With the proposed increase it wont be.
BTW, Not being cheap. I'd glady pay 10 times what i pay now for hunting in Pa to be like "good" deer states, but since that wont happen, Id be happy to pay double for RESPONSIBLE MANAGEMENT and things at least improving somewhathere.....But cant see paying double what other states are paying for half the management and hunting quality.
"PA has as much and usually more public land per hunter than anyeastern or midwestern state."
There are other states that have a TON. And when you compare they dont have nearly the hunter numbers to compete. Also, Pas public land is for the most part, largely a joke thanks to the deer plan...as is much of the unposted private.
"Every neighboring state charges their resident adults more for the same privileges afforded by the PA basic adult resident license. "
And you could take some of those and turn it right back around and say if you compare some of their base licenses and what they include, you'd pay more in Pa trying to make up the diff.... Thats why I said deer hunting only. No nonsense and fact manipulation.
Pas deer hunting sucks.
Pa has poor public land hunting.
Pa has a horrible game management agency.
"Pa is the undisputed number one state for the biggest black bears "
And pa requires an additional stamp.
So that says NOTHING of what we get for our base license fee."Pa has outstanding turkey hunting and doesnt charge an extra penny for this privelege for both spring and fall "
Actually Ive hunted several eastern and southern states, and currently ours is quite average. Lots of states with tons of birds. IN fact, the flock has declined significantly here in the sw.pa. The fall season has even been cut because of it.
And since you throw in turkey on base licensenonsense, we're right back to a "wash" since Fla, Ga, SC, and others offer wild boar, some states offer furbearers, and other critters.
Pa is "average" pricewise. I could say very well that we're overcharged judging by the extremely low hunter satisfaction and the poor deer hunting. But I'll concede "average" because the base license is exactly that, falling in the normal range......With the proposed increase it wont be.
BTW, Not being cheap. I'd glady pay 10 times what i pay now for hunting in Pa to be like "good" deer states, but since that wont happen, Id be happy to pay double for RESPONSIBLE MANAGEMENT and things at least improving somewhathere.
....But cant see paying double what other states are paying for half the management and hunting quality.
02-05-2009, 05:59 PM
#68
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: What to do with the crossbows.
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
REsident hunting licenses compared.
West Virginia----------------$23.00
Georgia---------------------$19.00
Florida----------------------$17.00
Illinois-----------------------$13.00
New York--------------------$19.00
Pa---------------------------$20.00
Btb wants to point out that pa includes ringneck and turkey. Thats nice but most are DEER hunters. Second, it all evens out because some of the other states offer other things as well. Some have furbearers included (pa needs added stamp) some include feral hogs (which pa doesnt even have) others include both bow and muzzleloader within that fee...
Underpaying? Hardly. We are about average, and could be argued GROSSLY overpaying due to lack of management which we are paying for.
With the rediculously high increase, we'll be paying top dollar for the samemismanagement we are paying for now.
REsident hunting licenses compared.
West Virginia----------------$23.00
Georgia---------------------$19.00
Florida----------------------$17.00
Illinois-----------------------$13.00
New York--------------------$19.00
Pa---------------------------$20.00
Btb wants to point out that pa includes ringneck and turkey. Thats nice but most are DEER hunters. Second, it all evens out because some of the other states offer other things as well. Some have furbearers included (pa needs added stamp) some include feral hogs (which pa doesnt even have) others include both bow and muzzleloader within that fee...
Underpaying? Hardly. We are about average, and could be argued GROSSLY overpaying due to lack of management which we are paying for.
With the rediculously high increase, we'll be paying top dollar for the samemismanagement we are paying for now.
There is another major difference between those states you are comparing to Pennsylvania that everyone needs to take into consideration too.
I haven’t it looking for each of those states to be sure if they are all general fund states but I know most of them are. That means that since all of the tax payers in those states pay for wildlife management with money being allocated from the state budget their wildlife agency doesn’t have to rely on only the hunting license dollars.
If Pennsylvania were a general fund agency wildlife management being funded with more then just hunting license money maybe the cost of a hunting license wouldn’t need to increase as much or as often.
The bottom line is that the money to run each state’s wildlife programs has to come form somewhere. Hunter’s in this state have to date wanted to be the sole source of wildlife management funding and they are with the exception of the slight revenue from timber, minerals or restricted use federal funds so it will either cost them more or they will simply end up with less in wildlife management then states that are better funded with tax dollars.
In those general fund states the license fees just help augment the tax dollars being used for wildlife management. But, hey hunters in this state are afraid of that type of funding. I guess Pennsylvania hunters don’t trust their politicians enough to allow tax dollars being used in wildlife management like occurs in all those other states.
R.S. Bodenhorn
02-05-2009, 06:04 PM
#69
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: What to do with the crossbows.
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
Shawnee nf. 277,506 acres.
Shawnee nf. 277,506 acres.
Check the guys link: http://www.alleghenywildernessoutfitter.com/
BTW, PA has a total of 4,000,000+ acres of public land open to hunting
02-05-2009, 06:20 PM
#70
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: What to do with the crossbows.
BTB, Ive seen pics of some of whats come out of Shawnee, and I assure you, there has NEVER been anythinglike them coming out of ANF.
"There is another major difference between those states you are comparing to Pennsylvania that everyone needs to take into consideration too.
I haven’t it looking for each of those states to be sure if they are all general fund states but I know most of them are. That means that since all of the tax payers in those states pay for wildlife management with money being allocated from the state budget their wildlife agency doesn’t have to rely on only the hunting license dollars. If Pennsylvania were a general fund agency wildlife management being funded with more then just hunting license money maybe the cost of a hunting license wouldn’t need to increase as much or as often. "
THose states dont have "independent" agencies, and they have HIGH hunter satisfaction. With the current dissatisfaction, and an independent agency that already doesnt listen to hunters, alternate funding could be a nightmare.
Also, pgc didnt seem to have a problem with the fact some states haveother funding as well when they gave their presentation. You know, the one where pgc WAS shown to falsely be the lowest of several selectively picked states on a posterboard chart...Due to them not comparing apples to apples. DIdnt use just deer hunting, or consider all that each license offered. But used all the priveledges included with pas, versus the other states base license, plus those things pa offered and they didnt, like turkey anc pheasant they added on the fees....but with no consideration at all given to the things that THEY offered andPas license DIDNT, and reciprocating the fees adding. Pure 100% complete deceit on their part.
Im not against areasonable license increase. Im against a license increase before any commitment at all to change is made.
"There is another major difference between those states you are comparing to Pennsylvania that everyone needs to take into consideration too.
I haven’t it looking for each of those states to be sure if they are all general fund states but I know most of them are. That means that since all of the tax payers in those states pay for wildlife management with money being allocated from the state budget their wildlife agency doesn’t have to rely on only the hunting license dollars. If Pennsylvania were a general fund agency wildlife management being funded with more then just hunting license money maybe the cost of a hunting license wouldn’t need to increase as much or as often. "
THose states dont have "independent" agencies, and they have HIGH hunter satisfaction. With the current dissatisfaction, and an independent agency that already doesnt listen to hunters, alternate funding could be a nightmare.
Also, pgc didnt seem to have a problem with the fact some states haveother funding as well when they gave their presentation. You know, the one where pgc WAS shown to falsely be the lowest of several selectively picked states on a posterboard chart...Due to them not comparing apples to apples. DIdnt use just deer hunting, or consider all that each license offered. But used all the priveledges included with pas, versus the other states base license, plus those things pa offered and they didnt, like turkey anc pheasant they added on the fees....but with no consideration at all given to the things that THEY offered andPas license DIDNT, and reciprocating the fees adding. Pure 100% complete deceit on their part.
Im not against areasonable license increase. Im against a license increase before any commitment at all to change is made.