blkpowder

Listening to a discussion at my local sportsman's club,prompted me to ask this question.[/align]It brought me to remember, years ago. How a representative from both the Pa Fish Comm. & Game Comm. would come[/align]on a quarterly basis to the club. Jim Mehaloc and Don Hyatt.These gentlemen are no longer with us.They would keep us informed[/align]on how things are going within there commission, any up coming changes being proposed and always asking and taking notes on our input. The biggest one the older members remember. When Jim would come down and ask our input on upcoming hunting seasons and bag limits. First there was an open floor discussion. Jim would go on,they want to change this, add that, cut back on this.Explain why, give his views then take our questions. Then we actually had Jim leave the room, took our vote. Called Jim back into the room and presented him a copy of our vote and signed by our club officials. Then Jim would take our vote and if any suggestions back to his supervisor. There is no doubt, the biggest negative you hear, the PGC is not listening to us or don't care about us. I'm new on this forum, but in this short time. I've seen some very intelligent,level headed people present and back there comments. BTB,Doug,bowtruck and others. Can this be done? I also hope to hear from RSB.[/align][/align] Thanks guys[/align]

bawanajim

The only thing you will hear from them is with out a license increase they can't afford to listen to us.



I'm sorry ,I just had to say that.


I'm sure theres a better reason some where, maybe we could cut the pheasant program to get the cash.



Oh wait we already did that.

bawanajim

Ifthey would make Xbows legal they will have some extra cash from selling more archery stamps. [:-]



But most hunters are against Xbowsso thatprobably won't happen.

sproulman

crossbows are legal now with a 1x power scope only.vote was 4/3 with 90% of hunters against it.

DCNR runs the PGC.

new OPEN RECORD LAW that went in effect on jan1st has the USP smiling from ear to ear.

you can read about new law by GOGGLE it ,PA OPEN RECORD LAW.

cardeeer

Force them to spend 4 months with me on deer stand in gamelands 52 and see the same3 deer . Lets see how rewarding that feels to them.

sproulman

I HAPPEN TOO KNOW DIFFFERENCE on what it cost of a vehicle.

the PGC could save millions if they would only go to smaller vehicle.

same with DCNR,rangers with 1 person riding around in suburban vehicles that get 12 miles per gallon with air conditioning on.

then, you see 5 DCNR employees go to same meeting area and all drive different vehicle with 1 person in it.
then, drive it home maybe 40 miles,thats 80 miles round trip 5 days a week.

just think of gas that would be saved.

there is 50% difference in cost of tires/repairs from full size truck or suburban to a blazer,blazer gets up to 22 mpg.

sproulman

thats why i get mad at my friend DOUGE when he says its HABITAT that is reason for 3 dpsm in clinton county.

sgl252 is best habitat you will ever see, PGC does a great job there but few deer, squirreals or rabbits few grouse and only stocked pheasants.

DougE

blkpwdr,Good post.The problem is,most sportsmen are not educated enough on the issues to have solid input.Most hunters want more deer but they don't understand how deer impact the habitat.Most hunters expect the PGC to fix the habitat but they don't understand what they do and what it takes to do it.It's easy to sit back and say what needs to be done.It's another thing to know what it takes to actually do it.

I've been to alot of informative seminars and habitat tours hosted by the PGC,DCNR,PSU and the US forest service.I've done pellet counts,population analysis studies and browse impact studies along side many of these professionals.These things are all open to the public and they're very informative.Funny thing is,99% of the people that show are guys that just want to learn.Very seldom does a naysayer every show up.It's too bad because eventually you come to realize that these guys really do care and they are trying to do what's best for the future of hunting.Education is the key.Unfortuantely,those most opposed to the PGC really don't care tolearn.All you have to do is listen to some of the off the wall posts on these message boards.One admistartor on another board slams the PGC at every opportunity.He was stated that he didn't care happened to the habitat as long as he saw enough deer running through the open timber to keep him excited.Yep,the PGC should really listen to someone with that mentality.Funny thing is,I heard his family had a pretty good year killing doe this year,something he strongly opposes.Although,his sentiments are scary,many feel the way he does.those are the one's crying the loudest.

I've went to enough hearings and meeting about the deer to understand what most hunters want.Most want alot of deer at any cost.I sat through the Legislative hearing two years ago in Dubois,sponsored by Hanna and Surra.We had many sportsman and politicians complaining that they don't see 60 deer a day anymore.I saw sportsmen stand up and say they should sell game lands and take pay cuts before there was a lisence increase.I saw hunters complain that they cut too much timber.I heard hunters complain that they didn't cut enough.I heard hunters complain about DCNR spraying beech brush.I heard the complaints about coyote and mountain lion stocking.This year we have a sportmen's group sueing the PGC.Theirconsultant said we'd be down to 50000 deer by this year.They represented a crazy Amish guy thatformed an elaborate hoach about being attacked by a mountain lions.three years ago at another save the deer meeting,I heard a guy threaten to burn down a taxidermists house because he supported the PGC.This crap all makes me embarrased to call myslef a hunter at times.It's no wonder the PGC doesn't listen all the time.

Cardeer,OK you spend 4 moths on SGL 52.B.S as usual.

Sproulman,I've owned blazers,half ton pu's and 3/4 ton pu's.My half ton's got better gas mileage than the blazers and the repair costs were no where near as bad.Too bad the PGC doesn't listen to you.You'd be a real savior.

bawanajim

Doug, I've heard the same crazy stuff ,it seems the nuts get all of the press,there really doesn't seem to be any middle ground on either side. But thats what keeps us coming back.
I too have been to meetings I have volunteered my time and my land for any studies they want to do,so far no takers. When they changed from a dpsm number to a variable with no set goals thats when I really became concerned. I see no stopping point in the doe killings until there just plain aren't hunt able numbers.
In my area 1B habitat is perfect we have cars hitting deer but as long as we have both cars and deer thats going to happen.The insurance report was in the last PA news ,I'm sure you've read it.
So just when is enough ,really enough? Is there a time figure or a number figure when we have reduced the herd enough?

explorer_Jack

Still waiting for an answer from BB question if it is about habitat.

But here is a challenge for you. Explain why 2F is being managed at 22 DPSM and 2G is managed at 12 PS DPSM when the forest health is poorer in 2F than in 2G based on regeneration? What PGC criteria justifies that descrepency?