How sad hunting is becoming...
 

I do apologize on the length of this post, but a co-worker and I who are both above avid hunters had a very intersting and really sad conversation the other day that I'm sure alot of you will be able to comprehend with.

We started discussing how we both just enjoy hunting and actually just harvesting deer. My friend is 34 and myself 24 so neither of us have hunted nearly as long as alot of people but we both hunt multiple states on public ground and private and just enjoy hunting and harvesting deer. Now I would not consider either of us to be trophy hunters. We are both as happy harvesting a 4point as we would be a 10, but I'm not making this post either for or against antler restricitions because it doesn'tmatter to me either way if we have them or not,but I do believe so called trophy hunting is one of the main things ruining hunting. It really makes me sick when I hear someone say why would you want to shoot a scrubby 6point when he may be a 10 next year? Who cares?!?! If someone wants to shoot the first legal buck and it makes them HAPPY then let it be. Myself and my friend we are Happy shooting the first legal bucks we see along with 75% of the hunting world. I'm not going to deny that shooting a monster won't make me happier than shooting a spike but I will not lose any sleep over it. 10 years ago you had very little of this bickering and fighting like you do today over shooting big bucks. People were more apt to share there hunting spots or allow you to hunt there land, but now with the big push for ''trophys''it's made people downright greedy.People are forgetting that hunting is supposed to be FUN and this is what I think is sad that people areforgetting that hunting is supposed to be FUN!

I enjoy shooting my bucks with the bow and have been very successful doing so, but I also enjoy hunting with ainline, flintlock, or a rifle so I'm not strictly a archery hunter, but enjoy hunting with any weapon. I have people say to me every year, why don't you wait for a big buck? My response is any buck with a bow is a trophy and I will stick to the till the day I die. These same people will say is theres NO deer so why are you filling all the doe tags you get!?!? I have2 responses tothis. First I say well if theres no deer then how is itthat I manage tofill all my tags? Now I will say that Idohunt most nights after work and everysay throughoutthe season soI do put alot of time in butI am by no means a full time hunter who doesn't work a 7 to 3:30 job.My next response is well how long ago has it been since you quit harvesting small bucks or no does? Most guys I have this conversation with are say 40. and there response is 5 years ago. Well I say ok so you were 35 when you quit harvesting does and little buck so that gives me 11more years to do so. This usually gets them thinking and changes there attitude a little bit.It all comes down to the fact that people forget where they came from and what used to make them happy! I'm sure the day will come when I start passing on small bucks and all the does but I assure you a young hunter laying the smack down and legally filling all his tags will do nothing but make me smile!!

The final statement my friend made was how he actually believes archery is one of the things destroying hunting. Now he is a avid archery hunter also and lives to archery hunt so this isn't coming from someone who hates archery hunters or anything like that. It took me awhile to agree with him but this made sense to me. The only way my friend used to hunt deer before archery hunting was in a gang with 25 guys. 10 years ago they could hunt on any of the gang members property and anyone could shoot any legal deer anywhere they hunted, because they were there to have FUN. Now as archery hunting and trophy hunting got more and more popular thisguy or that guyin the gang wouldn't want the 25 guys on his property possibly shooting the buck he watched all through archery season. This eventually led to the end of most of the gang hunting where so many hunters had so much fun for years and years. It sucks to admit but he's kinda right and if archery hunting wouldn't have grown so much in popularity where would we be? Don't get me wrong I will never quit archery hunting or lose my desire to send a arrow through a deer, because I think thats the best feeling in the world, but it is something to think about.

Sorry to be so long winded but these were just a few of the things we discussed that I thought many of you whether a full blown trophy hunter or someone like myself who doesn't consider himself a trophy hunter may want to think about.

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

Believe it or not I had the same thought today while plowing snow. It was prompted by Confused's post about hunters needing to find common ground. When the majority of hunters hunted in groups they had similar goals. Now with more archery hunters, the sport has become more a sport for the individual rather than as a group. Even rifle hunters are using more climbing stands and sitting all day in a tree. ARs have also resulted in more posted land with more competition for a few big buck.

Several archery hunters have stated they don't care what is happening in the rest of the state as long as they can fill their tags. That attitude will result in continued division among the ranks of hunters and i don'tsee any solution to the problem.

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wow, this post is so true, something i noticed myself also was this elitist attitude bow hunters seem to have. it's like they are the only ones out there that matter and any other hunting groups are some sort of subspecies that shouldnt even be in the woods. i spend some time on another bowhunting forum and really got peeved when i recently readan 18 year old bowhunter post about how he hates rifle season and rifle hunters????

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"Trophy Hunting" is such a interpretable concept/term. To me it means someone that pays an outfitter to sit them in a shed over a pile of corn where they know a big one is and then they shoot it, cape it out for a mountand donate the rest of the meat to Hunters for the Homeless.

While I love a lot of hunting shows, I just roll my eyes that a lot of the published writers in the magazine are nothing more than point and shoot guided"hunters" with money and time on their hands.

I don't shoot little bucks any more, but I am far from a trophy hunter. I want 2.5+ year old deer, regardless of what their rack looks like. My largest to date is a 110" 10 pointer that I got this year, a trophy of a lifetime for where I hunt.

To me deer hunting involves everything that goes with shooting a deer, the drag, the butchering, the camraderie, the ribbing,the smoking/cooking, etc... I want to do it all because that is what it's about to me. I am amazed at the number of hunters that not only haven't ever processed their deer but don't even know how to do it. There is more to hunting than sitting in a tree, shooting it, then dropping it off at the local butcher shop. The work and pain in the ass factor is all part of the journey and ends up being a fond memory later or. Skinning a frozen deer with frozen hands in frozen conditions makes that meat that much tastier and rewarding.

As to why I don't shoot little ones, I am just not into it anymore. Call it elitism or just plain not rewarding to me anymore but I just feel like any one can do it where I hunt. If I needed some meat for jerky I would tag a doe in the final day or something. I hunt WV browse deer, on the ground, and our land is still unmanaged at the moment although I am not against food plots, I just haven't been able to do it.

As long as a hunter is happy with how they are doing it then they should keep on keeping on, to each his own. As for me, I'll put in all the work until I am unable to do it and hopefully I pass that ethic to my children. I never give a guy a hard time for shooting a little one and I wish I could say I don't feel some resentment from a few hunting friends for me holding out and bagging the larger bucks our area supports.

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WestVirginiaBrent a agree 100% on enjoying every part of the hunt. The other night we were eating backstrap cheese steaks and I thought man this part is better than pulling the trigger. And it's funny you say about a 2.5yr old deer being your trophy b/c thats what I've shot here in pa 2 out of the past 3yrs and it is kind of what I do aim for, but if a legal 1.5yr buck comes in I do have to let a arrow fly.

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

tky1187:
I have to agree with you on alot of your points,,,Im 42 yrs old and i miss the days when we all gathered at camp the sat. before the first week of buck in Clinton co. Back then we had to have a camp roster and if i remember correctly,,most years it was a page and a half long with names,,,some guys would stay a day,,,some a week ,,,and then there were a few that stayed the whole 2 weeks with little sh!ts such as myself racing off the school bus in tennis shoes to run in the camp,,grab a gun and hit the woods,,,,This year i didnt hunt Pa. only because i have such good hunting here in Va. that i could'nt justify comin home and taking the time off plus the expenses of liscenses for my son and i to not see at least a couple deer,,,,there was one doe shot by a hunter at camp this year and only 3 hunters in camp for the 1st 3 days,,,rest of the 2 week season there was 2 hunters that hung it out with no deer sightings after the 3rd day. I kinda feel like i let the "Camp" down by not going to participate with my son this year,,,but the hunting in Pa fire has just burnt out for me and i have to say that i think participating in these forums and reading how alot of hunters judge a deer by its antler growth has helped to pour water on that fire. Here in va.,,,my son and i are blessed to have a small tract of land to hunt that is private and then we utilize alot of public land and damn it we have a good time,,,we both shot small bucks this year,,,my son shot a nice 8pt that is at the taxidermist right now gettin mounted,,,does,,,a few too many button bucks,,,,,and we high fived everyone of those deer,,,laughed at the different circumstances that surrounded each kill and gave thanks for the opportunity to just be out there enjoying Gods creations and each other. We never had a down moment (even when a button buck was shot accidently) and i never seen my sons excitement change whether he shot a doe,,or the big 8pt,,,he was excited the same with all of them,,,which made me even more excited,,,because to me they are all trophys and should be treated as such! Good luck to you and your buddy and keep the current attitude you have,,,,if nothing else it will keep you from bickering on these forums like a lot of these guys:D

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

I agree with some of what your saying, and see where your coming from. But there's also alot more to this than what your thinking. First off your only 24yrs old, that means you were 14 when you write on how things used to be 10 yrs ago! Big Bucks have always been what alot of hunters seek. I've been hunting 25yrs, 20 of that w/bow. I've never seen gangs of archery hunters. Archery has always been more of a individual sport in the woods. Sure guys will get together, hunt a area, and meet afterwards to tell their tales, share info. But in the woods its a lone sport. So I don't totally agree archery is ruining hunting.
You say you'll never change on harvesting any legal deer. I wouldn't be so sure of that. Alot of hunters go through a series of changes as they get older. Their goals in the woods change with age. You very well may find once you get up there in yrs, and you've harvested many, many younger bucks, and possibly haven't taken that Big Buck you've always truly wanted. Your goals with change to accomplish that. I personally have nothing wrong with a hunter thats wants to hunt strictly for a big buck or the hunter that shoots any legal buck. Its every individuals hunt when there in the woods. So to each his own. So I think its wrong any one hunter should be telling another hunter how to hunt.
Far posted land, and less people allow others to hunt their land. I don't think its strictly because of hunting. Lawsuits, Insurance Co's, have also forced land owners to keep others off to protect themselves from liability. Stealing expensive hunting gear like treestands also comes to mind as a good reason.
Just a few of my thoughts to consider.

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i agree with buckalley well said

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BuckAlley I apologize I didn't explain myself about the gang hunting. I meant gang hunting as in 25 guys hunting in rifle season. My friend and his gang still can get enough guys to drive in rifle season, but they only go to public land to do so b/c you can't get enough private land owners anymore to allow it. Also most of what I was referring to 10 yrs ago were things my co worker brought up, BUT just because I was 14 at the time doesn't mean I don't remember or know how hunting was 10 yrs ago. I can rememeber tagging along and everything about hunting in my area since I was 8. Hunting memories and past seasons aren't anything I'll ever forget. I never participated in a gang hunt untill I was 18 but I can remember when I was 8 to 10 different guys in my family talking about this gang shooting this or this gang shooting that and how they couldn't hunt this spot this year because of this guy and so on.

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wow i also totally agree. I've been reading a number of these threads and i definitly notice an arrogance among the bow hunters. I've alsonoticed the same "trophy or nothing" attitude from many people that I know that hunt. It seems anyone who shoots a spike or god forbid, a button buck by acciident, shouldn't be allowed to hunt.Personallyit's none of my business to dicate what they shoot but many seem to want to dictate what others shoot. I hunt for the love of huntingand the satisfaction of eating something I've personally taken from the woods. Ilive in a subburban area andhunting is limited to the daysI can get away. That usually equates to 3 or 4 days of bow hunting and 10 days of gun hunting. I try to hold out for a nice buck and i've shot my share of really nice deerbut if its late in the season and my tag is empty I will shoot a doe or a spike. After spending many hours in the woods I do believe any deer I've taken is a trophy and I personallylook at the spike buck that took me 50 hours in the field to kill with as much if not more satisfaction then a 6 or 8I shoot 5 minutes into opening day.
PS-I realy get a kick out of the guys who say you just need to scout better or hunt harder to get a big buck. Lets face it on opening dayof gun season in PA or NY luck plays a substainially bigger role in who shoots the big one then skill.

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

What makes hunting sad is the lack of interest in the sport. License sales are down. In NYS the average age of a deer hunter is 46yrs old, least thats what the DEC said at the last public meeting I attended. Modern times have changed the interests. Kids spend too much time sitting on the couch playing their X-Boxes, and alot of after school activities. Our youth are not getting as involved.
I believe another reason is the lack of deer. When I first got into hunting it was nothing to see 20-30 deer in the woods. Groups of 6-8 deer at a time. Now seeing a group of 3-4 is alot. Hunters want to see alot of deeror big bucks in the woods, and spend as few hrs as possible to do it. The price of licenses, and equipment needed can put a heck of a dent in ones pocket, and with this economy thats tough. In my family we had to purchase 4 super sportsman licenses. Mine, the wifes, and 2 boys. That was about $275!!
Land access could also be another. But NYS has alot of public land that can be utilized. I hunt alot of public land myself, and have noticed a decrease in hunters on opening day of gun season in the past 3yrs in the area I hunt.But I don't know how other states compare for access.

But right now I think the most important thing is to keep the interest in hunting amongst our youth. If we don't it'll be a dieing sport.

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- Decreasing hunter numbers
- Archery Vs. Cross bow Vs. Rifle
- Group Vs. Lone hunters
- AR's Vs. No restrictions
- Trophy Hunters Vs. Everyone
- Seeing 20 deer Vs. seeing 2-3
- Private Vs. Public land

All of the points mentioned by previous posters are valid. I believe one of the reasons is because hunting in any form is so personal. Each of us have our own definition as to what hunting is. Whenever you have different definitions of something you will have this. It just means we are all playing by a slightly different set of rules or standards. Not a great thing but, it is what it is at this point.

I have felt for a long time now that the decline of hunter numbers is tied very closely to the decline of the middle class of America. As the middle class goes, so does hunting. Lets face it, how many board meetings are topics of hunting and fishing coming up (unless its your industry)? I have worked at the same place since 2000 and I can count on my hands how many people have hunted that I a have ran into. Sure I get lots of, when I was 13 I hunted twice.... That is not an active hunter nor do folks like that encourage hunting for our sport.

I don't think there is magic bullet (bad pun intended) to correct our lower hunter numbers. I see and hear a lot of excuses though. Ex. Lack of hunting land, lack of deer etc. I feel these are growing problems however, are blown out of proportion. Because you had a farm to hunt last year and no longer can hunt it this year does not mean you stop hunting. Most states offer plenty of land to hunt publicly and each year are doing more and more. Public land is SAFE. So the excuse of needing a safe place to hunt is not valid. As long as you get used to seeing other hunters now and again, public land offers great opportunity.

This post will be too long if I go into all my opinions so I will just hit one more.

Bow hunters against all other hunters. I believe an archery hunter feels so passionate about his or her sport that this can be taken the wrong way by other sportsman. Archery hunters know that deer are easier to hunt when less pressured (Hence not liking other people in the woods when they are) and want to hunt deer in a less stress environment. Attempting to pattern animals is tough to do. Even harder when other hunters are in the woods. I know I feel strongly about this as my odds go down in archery when the public hands start seeing small game, turkey, doe season, duck season, etc hunters in the area as well. To me, it is not that the hunt is ruined, just the feeling of being alone is gone. That crack of a branch should be a deer but, it is another hunter.. darn! The point here for me is, most archery hunters don't dislike other hunters or other types of hunting, we are just extra sensitive to loads of people in the woods interrupting an already hard hunting situation. To me, it boils down to just that.

The debate of cross bows Vs. other bow hunting. Yes, I feel like a Xbow is not as hard to use than a other types of bows. I don't have a lot of experience with them but, an Xbow is point and shoot. Traditional and compound bows are not. I'm not saying Xbows should not be legal, not saying folks who hunt with them are less skilled or lazy. They are just not my bag of tea. I enjoy the challenge of a compound. Someone else may enjoy the challenge of the Xbow. Also, unless I see real evidence, I don't buy into the fact that lots of deer will be injured etc. I believe that most hunters are ethical. That being said, most hunters will ensure their Xbow skills match what is needed in the field to take game and not wound animals.

I do feel hunters need to band together. We need to act a one community and help in educating our youth. Hunting is no longer about having to put food on the table. Hunting is not about the right to bear arms. I do not believe hunting is all about population control either (I do believe it plays a part in some areas more than others). Hunting for most is about the enjoyment of hunting itself. Learning about the woods, nature, conservation, and changes in the environment, experience with parents, family, friends, strategic thinking, dedication, passion, and above all things Integrity.

We are loosing the battle in hunter numbers. Unless you have experienced hunting personally, you can not understand it and it is hard to talk openly about it. We can not expect a teacher who has never hunted to encourage hunting or fishing. Kids not being interested in hunting and fishing activities I believe are a direct result of their own family members. Not video games or other sports. Growing up, I was involved in almost all sports at a very young age and into college. At the same time I was hunting and fishing. I spent days in front of the TV playing video games. Heck.. we even had duck hunt! My friends did not hunt nor understood it. The entire time my family helped me understand that there was more to hunting and fishing than killing. It was about everything else. The kill was the last and smallest piece of the entire experience.

I realized this post is a bit long. Just my passion pouring through on a Monday morning. I love hunting, fishing, and share it with as many people as I can everyday. This not always easy.

I'll ask every hunter on this board. How many people have you introduced hunting to this year that have never hunted before? We should all try to introduce someone into the sport once a year. Even if they will never hunt but, it will give them awareness of what we do and how much we care. They will likely talk about it to other people in a positive light.. We will start reversing the trend! I truly believe this.

I introduced a family friend to the sport last year and now he is a hunting buddy for life. He also is over 30 plus years of age and never stepped into the woods before last year. So excited to see him learning etc.

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

It is nice to see that this topic has brought out somewell written and thoughtfulposts! There really are some nice guys left;)

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

It is always interesting for me to read the threads from folks out in the northeast where deer hunting is more of a longterm established tradition. Even though Illinois (where I grew up and still own land) is now viewed as big buck paradise, it has only emerged as such over the last twenty years. In that time, I have already seen the sport start to become divided up into separate cliques. I've already lost track of how many lectures I have heard from bow hunters (out there with state of the art compounds) that theirs is the only true way to shoot deer. Of course, they line up at Gander Mountain just like everybody else to buy every kind of scent masker, attractant, and call that is available. At the same time, I see folks out there with firearms who throw a fit if a small game hunter comes thru the same general area, even if they have just as much right to be there as the deer hunter. You now literally get fistfights over who gets to put their stand where, even when neither person owns the land and they both have permission to be there. I have cousins who own large tracts of land who have threatened to post their land to all deer hunting because they are just sick and tired of having to deal with all the fighting and arguing amongs the people they let deer hunt the ground. They never had that type of problems with small game hunters or even deer hunters back in the day when it was less trophy and competition oriented. Right or wrong, deer hunters, in terms of particular styles or in general, are increasingly viewed as acting like a bunch of spoiled brats that can't get along. And that is sad.

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Thanks to everyone who has posted comments so far, there have been many good points brought up. After discussing this topic w/ my coworker and then really thinking about it I just figured that I couldn't be the only one with these views. I really though this post would bring more comment from different groups of hunters, but I'm guessing with what I first stated and what others have added these points I guess you would say makes some kind of sense to everyone whether you agree with them 100% or only a little. Again just keep hunting FUN!

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hunters like me hunt BUCK only.

i will not shoot a small buck.

now do to lack of doe, NEVER SHOOT A DOE.

reason is older buck is CHALLENGE.

HUNTING DOE IS NOT AND SMALL BUCKS IS NOT.

if you had hunting like i saw, you would know what i mean.

i have to have it hard and getting doe or fawn or small buck is not in me.

like going to school,if you told anyone you shot a doe, you were given dirty look.

we all did it but never told anyone we did.

today, you have hunters that take picture of doe or fawn.

they are proud.

usually these are hunters that never were much of hunter anyhow.

they mostly were after one thing, MEAT...........

so, thats difference, when you look on my wall, its horns ,it past and great memories, no doe head up there or small buck .

its just not a CHALLENGE of hunt for people like me to kill a doe or fawn or small buck and my freezer is EMPTY.;)

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VERY GOOD POST.

you said its not rewarding, i use same thing but i say its not CHALLENGING.;)

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hunting should be fun hope people remember that
if it is not fun then why do it

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I agree with a lot of what has been written. I have shot a ton of young, small buck and have great memories doing it. I think every hunter should shoot what makes it "Fun" for them. I came to a point where shooting the first buck that walked up to me was not fun for me anymore. There were many years I'd be dragging my buck out by 8:00am on the first day. I much more enjoy being out in the woods, seeing multiple young buck and waiting for a more mature animal. I shoot doe. The number of tags I fill is based on how many deer in general our group is seeing. If numbers are down, I shoot less. If numbers are up I fill all my tags. There have been many times where I pass a deer and it walks over the hill and gets shot. I have no problem with that. I also archery hunt and can't stand how most archery hunters act in general. There are guys that are humble but there are many more who act elitist. I stopped visiting the bowhunter forum here because of this attitude. Anyway, I agree that hunting should be "FUN"!!

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Honestly how bad has it become, when state employees lives are threatened,they wear bullet proof vests really.
It deer hunting for god sake,its a time with family and friends in the great outdoors.People act as if the P.G.C. has come into their homes and taken something that belongs to them.
Am I happy with the direction things are going ,of course not ,but thats no reason to make up conspiracy theories about government agency's trying to ruin your lives. There are still enough deer out there that any one that wants to kill one and puts the time and effort required, will kill one.
If you want more deer than quit shooting your doe and convince your friends and neighbors to do the same,get a chain saw out and start cutting your maple down so the oaks and Cherry's can grow,plant pear trees they don't require the yearly work that apples do.Make brush piles out of the tops.
You and only you can make a difference,you can sit and complain or you can make your hunting better ,the choice is yours, and it can be fun.;)

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There are roughly 924K hunters and less than 1M PS deer, so there aren't enough deer for everyone to kill one ,especially since some hunters shoot 5 or 6 /yr. The sustainable harvest is less than 350K deer/yr. That means over 450K hunters won't harvest a deer no matter how much they scout, how far they travel or how hard they hunt!!!

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And I don't feel that hunting at Smokies Beer & burger constitutes deer hunting.
Every year I read about some numb nuts that bags his first buck after hunting for twenty five years,First off the purchase of a hunting license does not make one a deer hunter,nor does it decrease ones ineptness.
And if you can't get it done in five years then just maybe your more suited to be a golfer.:eek:

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Approx. 1 out of nine hunters harvested a buck this year, so the average hunter would harvest a buck once every 9 years. Now if you subtract the archery buck kill, the success rate for rifle hunters would even be lower.

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Once again you are shuffling the numbers, not every one that buys a license is a deer hunter,or hunts deer at all.
I know several older guys who only shoot woodchucks during the summer and squirrels in the early fall,they can't take the cold or drag deer out of the woods.
And others like myself that shoot bucks with alarming frequency.:)

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Jimbo, talking about regularly harvesting big bucks with Blueboy is kinda like a surgeon discussing delicate brain surgery with the hospital janitor. He understands that it can be done but he'll never understand how.

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so your saying over half the hunting license that are sold the purchasers dont hunt deer? half a million is 500k that dont hunt deer and under 350k in deer are harvested by the other 500k hunters who do hunt deer? :eek:

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I don't see where I said anything like what you heard.[8D]

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your sure making it sound like it being significant amount of non deer hunters who buy tags to affect the deer numbers being harvested.

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I don't know how the number could ever be determined with out a separate buck tag,and you know that ain't happening. I would guess its between 10-20% if I had to venture a guess.[>:]

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Over 550K hunters bought antlerless tags in the first round and quite a few hunters only hunt buck. To use the exception to the rule to support your position shows a new level of desperation.

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Quite a few hunters don't hunt deer, Quite a few deer hunnters don't hunt buck. In the absence of real numbers on both situations, Jim's point is every bit as valid as Blueboys and not merely "desperation"

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I’m glad this post was started and would like to get some of it back on track before it degenerates further. Congrats to the young men that started it. They are the future of this sport in PA, and have pointed out the elephant in the corner that has created a schism in our ranks and will ultimately divide us.

I don’t think anyone, no matter their age, should be made to feel badly about taking a legal deer. Somewhere in this thread there is a post about a family talking about how they enjoyed each deer they bagged, including a button buck. That was a super post, and we should pay attention to it. Too often I read comments here about how shooting a small buck “isn’t a challenge” and that no one should be proud of a doe. Honestly, such chest-thumping statements may well reveal more about the person who makes them than their hunting prowess.

I grew up in PA and was fortunate enough to hunt all across the state, from big woods to cackling roosters in cornfields. I have been very, very fortunate to now have land to hunt in a more southerly state and have killed some tremendous bucks there.

Having said that, I think the hardest pill for me to swallow about AR in PA is that, well, we didn’t travel back home to hunt in PA to kill a big buck. We didn’t expect too, frankly, and we had a BLAST! That doesn’t mean that hunting back home in PA was worse than where I live now....it was just DIFFERENT, unique, something to be embraced for that fact. It was PA deer hunting, not Ohio and we loved it for that fact. Besides, in the laurel or popple thickets of my PA youth we had a hard enough time seeing if it “had horns” let alone counting points, and many a youngster was counseled “if you try to count the points, you miss, son. Count ‘em when he’s on the ground.”

Remember those days? Somewhere amid the Saturday TV shows and big daddy rabbits, replete with visions of sugar plums in our heads, we forgot them.

Does shooting a 1.5 year old buck make you less of a hunter that holds out for an older one? Nope. Each person’s circumstances AND perspective is different. If you appreciate and respect the day, the deer, the woods, the camaraderie, that’s[/b] the point. Too often now I read it’s only a legitimate experience if the animal is a “mature” or a under some circumstances a “cull” buck (He’s okay for a “cull” buck! I mean, wow, you really hear that!).

Somewhere, somehow, a hunter who probably had the purest of motives, shooting a deer because they enjoyed the venison it provided, has been vilified; supplanted by antlers measurements and talk of G2’s. Honestly, if find yourself identifying with the latter I respect your right for doing so. So long as you don’t denigrate the former.

To me, that’s what’s been lost in PA. A doe is now a number on a doe harvest report, something akin to shooting rabbits, and a buck, well, he only counts if he’s a trophy. They aren’t the one deer a year you thought about and cherished and relived through the stark, long off season. In changing the way we think about deer and deer hunting, we appear to have lost not only respect for the deer, but for ourselves as well.

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

I agree with next to nothing in this thread. Matter of fact these are probably the 2 stupidest statements I've ever heard on HNI....

Why does it bother you so much? Hunt whatever the hell you want to hunt and dont' worry about it. You don't want to shoot trophy bucks? Cool... go whack a 4 pointer. I'll be the first to congratulate you. Go have yourself all the fun in the world hunting the way you want to.But don't degrade others for hunting how they want to at the same time. A bit hypocritical isn't it? By the way there are "trophy" gun hunters as well as bow. Why segragate bowhunting? Ridiculous IMO.

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

Those toes a little sore there:D

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

"Once again you are shuffling the numbers, not every one that buys a license is a deer hunter,or hunts deer at all.
I know several older guys who only shoot woodchucks during the summer and squirrels in the early fall,they can't take the cold or drag deer out of the woods. "

Those guys are a great rarity. Here in Pa the HUUUUGE majority deer hunt. Pgc keeps statistics from surveys on how many hunters hunt what. Its posted in the game news yearly. Those that hunt "other" species areVERY low compared to the overall hunter numbers and that doesnt even take into account and subtract the number of those that hunt deer ALSO among the smallgame, grouse, etc. hunters. So the numbers that hunt no deer is TINY. Personally, I know of none either.

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

Confused- Everything you stated is something that almost all PA hunters can or could relate with at one time or another, It's just good to know there are many others out there with the same beliefs I have.

Like I stated in my first post, down the road in my hunting career I may not always shoot the first buck I see or try to fill all my doe tags but when that time does come I will not forget the days when I did and I most certainly won't belittle someone who does shoot the first buck or all the does he's allowed to.

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

the sad thing is people forget hunting can still be fun;)

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

I enjoy hunting even when I don't carry a weapon. In fact ,some times I enjoy it a lot more because I can concentrate on reading sign and trying to figure out what the deer are doing to avoid the standers.

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

that it your problem bb you need a weapon to kill a deer:)
now i understand why you get only crippled ones

RE: How sad hunting is becoming...
 

Are you saying I kill those cripples with my bare hands?

Didn't you ever participate in a hunt without a weapon? I've killed enough deer so I don't have a huge desire to kill a lot more from a herd that is way below the carrying capacity of the habitat.