RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

More and bigger bucks is an impossibility if you believe the buck harvest figures. If AR are protecting roughly 75% of the yearling bucks from harvest, and prior to AR's yearlings constituted over 60% of the harvest....given that the buck harvest is WAY down from pre-AR...by about 50%, then the only thing we've done is eliminate most of the yearling harvest! NOTHING else has changed. We are still killing basically the same numbers of 2.5, and 3.5 buck as before. Not to mention that for some UNKNOWN reason the areas with highest degrees of HR the breeding rates have declined, not increased as they predicted as the herd came back within CC. How can we have MORE bucks if there are not enough does to produce them, and breeding rates have DECLINED? Bucks have NOT gotten bigger. The average buck killed has gotten bigger (based ony losing the yearling percentage of harvest), but we had to trade off 50% of our buck harvest to accomplish the smoke and mirrors act.

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

Yes total numbers are down.


Just to be accurate, We are protecting roughly half of the yearlings and we were killing 80+ % of yearlings before AR.

Personally, I'm seeing slightly more 2.5+ bucks and the average 2.5 buck I'm seeing is better than before. Everyone I talk to is seeing way more 1.5 bucks both legal size and sub legal size. And virtually everyone I talk to is seeing less does than before. Thepercentage of less doesseen varies widely from place to place.

I think some guys had selective hearing. Gary Alt made a big mistake saying "more and bigger buck" Some guys still cling to that one sentence even though Alt has been gone for years. What is also indisputable is that Alt also said "less deer" thousands of times.

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

Alt is not the only one that said it. Wallingford even put it in print.

Brett Wallingford
Pa Game News July 2002
Deer and Deer Management




[blockquote]quote:

"we expect by 2003 hunters will see MORE and LARGER bucks than ever before". [/blockquote]

Alt also said we needed to lower the deer numbers(anterless) to make room for all of the 1.5 year old bucks that would be saved. Hasn't happened yet. All of those 1.5s that were supposed to be saved in subsequent years, ended up getting harvested as button bucks in the anterless harvest.

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

More and bigger bucks was definately one of many dumb things that Alt claimed would happen.I won't dispute any of that for a minute.However,like you pointed out,he also said loud and clear that the herd would be reduced by 50%.That's what made the more and bigger bucks claim stupid.

While

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

While Isupport the fundamentals of the deer plan and the need to balance the herd with the habitat,I agree that many of Alt's ridiculous claims did more to damage the PGC's credibility than anything else.he

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

Alt also said the buck harvest would return to normal. What's the definition of normal?

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

You have repeating disputed the claim that the buck would be bigger . Di you finally see the light?

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

That explains why BTB still favors ARs. If he is seeing more and bigger 1.5 buck, he certainly hasn't been effected by HR. It is impossible to have more 1.5+ buck with fewer doe and declining breeding rates. Could it be that BTB is reporting what he would like to see rather than what he is really seeing in the field?

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

Gotta tell ya guys. This red button IS a beautiful thing!

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history
 

Gee, how'd I ever miss that one?