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RE: Rifle season 2008 is history

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he idea was floated that we should put a reverse point restriction where only spikes and forkies were legal and I said people would just bust off points until legal. You then replied as usual saying it isn't easy as you have tried kicking them off. Again, your words...I didn't make that up

Yes I tried kicking them off of bucks that were killed by others that they failed to recover. But , you accused me of shooting non-AR legal buck and trying to kick off the rack. There is a huge difference between the two.

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Rosenberry said no evidence is available either way. I wouldn't believe there to be any. Who is out there aging and measuring?? Who took pre-ar samples of enough bucks to be scientific? And how do you explain that I see more ar-legal 1.5 deer now and less percentage of spikes? They said the size of 2.5 year olds would increase because of less late born fawns. Less spikes is a sign of less late borns, and that is exactly what I see, as well as more legal 1.5 bucks.

Please continue to flaunt your ignorance for all to see. Every year the PGC has teams of PGC personal aging and measuring the buck that are harvested. The fact that you didn't know that shows how little you know about deer management in PA. Furthermore,the observations of a hunter with an obvious bias such as you have absolutely no credibility.

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history

And BB2 just keeps going and going and going

feel free to use this as your avatar there BB!

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history

Cheapshots and insults are all the PGC supporters have to support their position. It is truly sad to see how those that support the PGC also support violating the game laws.

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history

You said you wanted to debate deer management and yet you keep going back to off topic venom. Yes they do random aging. Our crew has been approached and had it done. They never measured the rack however. As far as I have seen, the only measuring happens at the PGC records program sessions. Not exactly a scientific sample. And how am I biased when I am reporting what I see. I told here that I didn't see many bucks older than 1.5 this year, but that I did see a large number of 1.5 deer. If I was being biased I would have claimed to have seen a ton of big bucks, which I didn't, except for sightings around the houses when not hunting, or crossing roads at night. I just couldn't locate them when actually hunting. I knowa few exist. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother hunting in that area. They were too smart for me this year, which is fine, I can live with that. That is the game we play. I saw one spike at home and a half spike at camp 2f.

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history

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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

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ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

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ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter

Bluebird2 this is a new low even for you. You have now devoted several pages to your completely irrational distortion of Gregs act of sportsmanship. He first triedto free that buck./ Then he enlisted the local WCO. When the bucks fate was determined to be doomed by that WCO. He then sawto it that nothing was wasted and made a personal sacrifice to do that. He didwhat he didin the presence of, under the direction of, and with permission of the local WCO. Your attempts to distort an act that any sportsman should applaud is simply pathetic.

NUFF SAID!!

You care nothing for the sport. Your "sport" is to get on this and other forums and spend your days attempting to libel and slander the PGC and anyone else who disagrees with your demands that we return PA to the management style ofone big public deer farm.

There is nothing sporting in tagging a WCO dispatched deer. Sporting implies fair chase and our hunter in this story had no legal or ethical obligations toclaim thatdeer. Also....what is your definition of wasted? If this deer had provided nourishment to scavengers, microorganisms, and plants in his death, then exactly what is wasted other than our own ideology of a trophy set of antlers, or tender backstraps? Why have we seemed to have lost sight of the natural processes at work, outside of our own human influences. To claim that deer would have been wasted is no better than the tree hugger soccer mom that wants the WCO to dispatch a coyote because she and her kids watched it drag down a fawn and basically eat it alive. Animals die every day in the forest, and NOTHING is wasted in nature. I'm not pointing a finger of accusation, if the WCO authorized him to tag the deer, then I guess he is not at fault, but let's not put him on a pedestal and applaud him as some kind of coservationist hero for sacrificing his tag for some greater good. No one needed to tag the deer. The PGC estimates a certain perecntage of natural mortality each year, in their management models. Perhaps if we are looking for a definition of sportsmanship, it would be the hunterthat mortally wounds, but fails to recover his deer, to claim the kill, as the law entitles him to only one deer killed per tag....regardless of the fact that the deer was not recovered by the hunter. Theoretically if each hunter who purchased an antlerless tag killed, but failed to recover one deer before killing and tagging an animal, the harvest could greatly exceed the actual goal and severely affect the mgt program. This would be much more "sporting" than tagging a roadkill or victim of other circumstantial mortality.

You seem to have been drinking some of BB2's Koolaid. Of course it wasn't "sporting" I said it was an act of good sportsmanship.

Here's Websters definition of sportsmanship:

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Main Entry:
sports·man·ship

Pronunciation:
\-ˌship\
Function:
noun
Date:
1745
: conduct (as fairness, respect for one's opponent, and graciousness in winning or losing) becoming to one participating in a sport

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[/align]Lets see, fairness, respect for ones opponent and graciousness in winning or losing...

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[/align]Fairness....Greg chose not to take advantage of his quarry when he found it in a defenseless situation and he instead tried to free the deer to be hunted another day.

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[/align]respect for ones opponenet.....I can think of no greater demonstration of respect for one's opponent, than to make sure that a valuable animal is utilized,treated with respectand honored.

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[/align]graciousness in winning or losing....There was no winner in the outcome of this situation. Greg showed graciousness nonetheless.

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[/align]As for your "nothing is wasted in nature" BS, you are , of course, technically correct but in the context of the actual events as they occured, that's the kind thinking that we'd expect to find on a PETA website. In any other context or if it were your buddy BB for example, I doubt you'd suggest that what Greg did was no betterthan leavingthe deer to feed the scavengers, bugs, and microrganisms

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[/align]Lets recognize BB2's posts and yours on this subjectfor what they really are. They are nothing more than petty rationalizations in order to make a personal attack on an individual with whom you happen to disagree on another issue.

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I'm sorry for you if you interpret my posts in this manner. I have always welcomed any opposing argument on any issue. Just because I tend to agree wth BB on several issues, you seem to have the idea that we are ol drinking buddies or something. I've never actually met the man or even conversed with him in any means other than a keypad. So what...I guess you and livbucks must have been co captains of the prep school cheerleading squad using that logic. I don't thnk Livbucks did anything wrong as the WCO authorized his actions. Likewise I think your endless praise and bestowing of sportsman of the year title is ridiculous. That has NOTHING to do with any previous or future argument about deer mgt in PA.

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history

I know of one particular site you were run off basically and Im certain most there do not miss you. So before attacking others for their posting habits, look in the mirror first bub.;)

No one has ever "run me off" from a site yet, nor have I ever been booted from one, either. How's your record on that last part?

If I choose to no longer participate because of the character (or lack thereof) of some of the regulars on a particular site, that's my choice. Feel free to continue on there with those like-minded individuals with whom you've formed a bond. You probably deserve each others' company?

Whine? About what, exactly...that some apparently exist only to dominate the conversations of others by posting the sameopinionated tripe over and over again, until the rest of the posters get tired of the same old song and ask for some relief?

Yep, really sounds like some sorta whine, doesn't it.[8D]

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history

AS this topic IS about the summary of the 2008 season, I'll say that saw fewer deer than I expected I would, given the poor weather last season. I hoped for a slight increase over last year. I saw only a handful of bucks....and the only shooters were in archery. Rifle consisted of a few opportunites at antlerless deer. Many of my friends went deerless this season. One buddy tagged a very nice 9 point on private land. A friend who hunts MD actually killed 7 deer as of date, two bucks. His invite for next year is awful tempting. How about HR in an area where it is still needed? (Suburban Baltimore.)

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history

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They do more than just random aging and the sampling method does in fact produce a scientific sample . Remember we we told that ARs would double or triple the number of 8 pts. the only way that could happen is if the average number of points on 2.5+ buck increased. But the number of 2.5+ buck didn't double and the number of 8 pt. buck did not double, so there is no evidence that the rack size of the average 2.5 + buck increased.

RE: Rifle season 2008 is history

No one ever claimed the rack size of the average 2.5 year old would increase.