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-   -   pa antler restrictions yes or no? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/northeast/275547-pa-antler-restrictions-yes-no.html)

4evrhtn 12-05-2008 01:14 PM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 
Thanks for posting your opinion based on EXPERIENCE over the years. If only those who are whining about AR would spend more time in the woods off-season and during and having had seen the changes taking place the good and the bad then they could also speak from experience instead of reciting PAGC "stats and reports". It gets me... some have no faith in AR yet they have faith in the PAGC to give verbatim dictation from their reports.In my life I have spent many more days in the woods than not in the woods and I see the herd decrease and I also see a higher percentage of larger buck now than before AR. I also work in a Taxidermy shop part time and have contact with more deer after harvestthan most who work for the Game Commission. I don't need a report to tell me what to think, I see the benefit of AR here as well as the other states I hunt. I agree with Sproul and whoever mentioned limiting jr. hunters to only2 non AR buck. Once those 2 bucks are shot than it's time to up the standard for youth. I take my fiance's boy out and he is not allowed to shoot anything under a 4pt for his first buck, the reason is... that what I shot for my first deer and i can't tell him to do what I didn't do myself.And the truth is he doesn't want to shoot spike bucks or even a 4 pt for that matter, he wants a 6 or better. Amazing to see a 12 year old have higher standards for himself when he has never shot a deer than older men who have killed numerous deer and still want to shoot whatever they see. I'm proud of him and I know he will kill nicer buck in his first few years than almost all of those who cry about having tohold out for an adult or larger racked deer.

bluebird2 12-05-2008 02:35 PM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

Even with an antler restriction you have a very slim chance of harvesting a mature buck since your sights are on bare minimum requirements
I have no burning desire to harvest a mature buck so why would I even consider passing on a legal buck?

I pass up deer time after time till I find the buck I am hunting for but then again I put the time and effort into knowing what buck are in the area so I know which buck is the largest and pretty accurately judge how many deer are in the area and the ratio of buck to doe.
You can do whatever you want and you could do it before ARS. But, I can't do what I want because of ARS and hunters like you who prefer to hunt for racks instead of just bucks.


bluebird2 12-05-2008 02:51 PM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

If only those who are whining about AR would spend more time in the woods off-season and during and having had seen the changes taking place the good and the bad then they could also speak from experience instead of reciting PAGC "stats and reports".
Spending more time in the woods during the off season won't change the fact that we harvested fewer 2.5+ buck in 2007 than in 2002. It won't change the fact that breeding rates and productivity decreased instead of increasing. it won't change the fact that we are high grading our buck and that there is no evidence that ARs have increased the rack size of the average 2.5+ buck.

Amazing to see a 12 year old have higher standards for himself when he has never shot a deer than older men who have killed numerous deer and still want to shoot whatever they see. I
Nice cheap shot sport. Just wait until you have 5 years left to hunt and see how much big racks mean to you then. When you are 70's will you have a buck mounted so they can bury it with you? Or will you have it placed in a glass case above your grave instead of a tombstone?

I see the benefit of AR here as well as the other states I hunt.
Would you care to tell us about the benefits of ARs in Miss. where rack sizes decreased across the state or would you prefer ARK. where 2 out of 3 regions voted to repeal ARs? Maybe you want to tell us about ARs in WMU 118 in Mich. where ARs were repealed after 5 years. Or would you prefer the 6 western states where ARs were tried and repealed? Then there is NY where ARs failed too increase the number of 2.5+ harvested and support for ARs is decreasing.



bullseyerice 12-05-2008 03:32 PM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 
I think that there should be restrictions on the antlers. I would rather shoot a big buck than a small buck. Any Day!!!!!!

bluebird2 12-05-2008 04:04 PM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 
No one is forcing you to shoot a small buck. Prior to ARs hunters could choose to harvest any legal antlered buck that met their standards. Now hunters are forced to harvest buck based on the standards of those that value rack size above everything else including herd health. There is no biological or scientific justification for ARs.

FiveMiler 12-05-2008 05:20 PM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 
I just finished reading an article in the July 2002 Game News written by PGC BiologistBrett Walligford. He states in the article that "we expect by 2003 hunters will see MORE and LARGER bucks than ever before".

I'm still waiting.

bluebird2 12-05-2008 06:00 PM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 
Here is what Alt told C. Alsheimer,

Few have studied the antler restriction issue more than Pennsylvania ’s Dr. Gary Alt. His conclusions led to a statewide antler point restriction in 2002.

“What we are trying to do is have a more natural antlered-buck-to-adult-doe-ratio and a more natural breeding ecology. We feel that reducing the number of adult does and increasing the antlered buck population is in the best interest of the deer resource,” he explains.

“Scientists told us that to fix our Pennsylvania problem we needed to save half of our yearling bucks. This is why we collected information on 73,000 bucks in the four years prior to antler restrictions. We learned that in order to save half of the yearling bucks, the majority of counties in Pennsylvania needed to restrict the harvest of bucks with fewer than three points on a side. Had we not done the research on our yearlings, we wouldn’t have known this.”

“Prior to antler restrictions, only about 50,000 Pennsylvania bucks survived the state’s annual deer season, and just one in one hundred survived to age four. With antler restrictions, we’ve been able to save 75,000 to 100,000 bucks the first year.

“Launching 75,000 to 100,000 bucks into the next age class tripled the number of bucks age two or older,” notes Alt. “This tripled the number of bucks with eight or more points in just one year, so a by-product of antler restrictions is that hunters have been able to see more and bigger bucks. To offset the killing of less bucks we knew we needed to harvest more does by the same number and we’ve tried hard to accomplish this.”

the outsider 12-05-2008 06:28 PM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 

ORIGINAL: 4evrhtn


ORIGINAL: the outsider

The biggest buck I ever shot in 2G was in 1990. And the year before that I passed on a 10 pt buck with an estimated 22" spread there because I didn't have a goodclear shot.Didn't want to take a chance on wounding it.
You "passed" on a 10 pt. OK, so if I see a deer and have no shot, that means I passed on that deer?
Don't claim to pass up a 10 pt if you are admitting to wanting to shoot a spike or Y. You didn't have an opportunity to shoot the 10 point- tell it as it is. I commend you for not shooting and wounding the deer. Like I wrote above.. if you shoot the first bare minimum buck you won't shoot a big buck.


No, I didn't have a sure-kill shot on the 10 pointer. A lot of hunters probably would have pulled the trigger. And that doesn't mean I would take the first legal buck that would come along. ButI want that to be my choice.

Like I said, there were large bucks before the AR's. I went through a Game Commission road block in 1990, and the 10 pointer that I shot thatyear was aged at 3 1/2 years.

bowtruck 12-05-2008 07:42 PM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 
with ar i see bigger buck i didnt like them at first but now it doesnt bother me either way

WillCz 12-06-2008 07:32 AM

RE: pa antler restrictions yes or no?
 
I will work as hard as I can to preserve AR. No question of the benefit in my area.


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