RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

I remember it as well. He would rant on and on about how the more natural breeding ecology and balancing the b/d ratio would cause so much competition for breeding rights, that only the superior deer would do all the breeding, and as a result the racks would get noticeably bigger over time. Interestingly enough, all of these direct quotes seem to have disappeared or been edited.Is someonepracticing damage control? I'll have to see if I can dig it up in a published article somewhere in my old magazine cllections.I am 100% positive he said those exact words, and its frustrating not to be able to find a link to it. They may have deleted those quotes from the PGC web site, but it still should be in published form somewhere, where they cannot delete it. I'll say $50 to anyone who can find it. There seem to be many who recall him saying those words at the onset of his deer plan.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

They also seem to have edited his quotes on the b/d ratio being 1/10, after the PGC's own data showed how far fetched that claim was.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

Here is the link to," Getting the POint on Antler Restrictions".
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/p...f/getPoint.pdf

It clearly states that in the long term hunters will likely see more and larger buck than ever before. The only way for hunters to see larger buck than ever before is for the 2.5+ buck to be bigger than they were in the past.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

Simply not true. This is justone of your more feeble attempts to put words in someones mouth. No matter how many times you twist it Alt did not say that the anlers of any age class would be bigger or better in that same age class.

Much like your claim that PAstands alone in a decline in hunting license sales, the real evidence proves otherwise.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

Can you explain how we will have bigger bucks than ever before if the 2.5+ bucks aren't bigger that than the per-AR bucks,

I never claimed PA stands alone in a decline in license sales. What I said was junior license sales were increasing before the effects of HR were noticeable and then began to decline. Adult license sales were stable or increasing slightly before the HR and then declined at a faster rate then the national average.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

Clearly part of the goal was that some of those bucks that were saved by AR would live beyond 2.5 years. Results have not been quite as good as it was hoped but clearly, a larger percentage of bucks are living beyond 2.5 than there were before AR. All research indicates that antler quality depends on three factors. They are, in order of importance: Age, nutrition and genetics. Obviously, the only componenet that can bemanaged with any degree of effectiveness on a statewide basis is age. With PA being mostly private property, a widespread improvement in nutrition would be a far more daunting task. Lastly, managing genetics in a wild population with 900,000 huntesr would be the hardest (virtually impossible) component to manage



Uh, yes you did. Just a few pages back. I then provided ten links supporting my position. You have not provided any documentation and now you back away from what you claimed previously.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

I most certainly did document what I posted. I posted the link for the license sales records from 1999 ,from the PGC and they show junior license sales were increasing.

You provided nothing to refute the claim that Alt said our 2.5+ buck would be bigger than they were before ARs.

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

"Much like your claim that PAstands alone in a decline in hunting license sales, the real evidence proves otherwise"

The national license sales dropped 4% from 2001 to 2006.

According to PGC's license sales record, the license sales during that same period dropped 10%, going from 1,047,820 down to 945,892.

The fact our license sales are decreasing at OVER TWICE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE....shows something going on here, that isnt going on in other states.... A miserably failed deer program. And judgingby thegovernment interventions, audits, lawsuits, petitioning,arguing, and hemmorhaging of hunters, Id say a "punctuation mark" would be appropriate at the end of "miserably failed program"...!

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

"Ive talked too a lot of different hunters down that way that right now would spit Beechnut in his eye, few even called him the medicine man."

Ive heard the term "medicine man" used, but thats about the nicest comment that Id heard. I dont think that Dr. Alt will be referred to as the "patron saint" of deer hunting in Pennsylvania anytime in the too near future. LOL

RE: Witch Doctors Should Hunters Believe
 

When one claims that another has said something, the burden of proof does not lie with those who question the claim. the burden of proof is on you for stating that Alt made that claim and you have produced no such evidence.

Common sense tells us that such a claim would have caused an immediate challenge and rightfully so. Alt made no claim that antler size would increase within any given age class. Alt was guilty of being overly optimistic in his predictions of the numbers of bucks that AR would save but he admitted that as soon as it became evident with the next years harvest numbers.

You kind of remind me of Barack Obama. Very free and easy with criticisms of the satus quo but very short on constructive ideas going forward.