Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
11-01-2008, 06:31 PM
#452
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Since you don't like the fact that I used the word "if" here is what Bret wallingford had to say about the number of buck carried over to 2001.
Since the 2001 harvest was less than the 2000 harvest,which kept the herd stable , there is no reason to believe the 2001 harvest reduced the number of 1.5 buck in 2002. Therefore , the 2002 harvest of 112,384 buck should have carried over 112,384 buck to become 2.5+ buck. But the 2003 2.5+ buck harvest was only 62,030 So the question becomes what happen to all the additional buck that were carried over? Were they lost to non-hunting mortality and poaching? Was a significant percentage of 2.5 buck non-AR legal?
Why didn't the buck harvest return to normal in 2003 as Alt and you predicted? Why has the 1.5 and 2.5+ buck harvest continued to decline since Ars were implemented?
In January 2001, using the ESTIMATED preseason population (which used harvest data) and subtracting the harvest left the following deer to overwinter:
Adult bucks: 55,482
Male fawns: 282,571 (total males = 338,053)
Adult females: 412,803
Female fawns: 259,700 (total females = 672,503)
(Note: all of the overwintering deer listed above will be adults in the October 2001 preseason estimate.)
Adult bucks: 55,482
Male fawns: 282,571 (total males = 338,053)
Adult females: 412,803
Female fawns: 259,700 (total females = 672,503)
(Note: all of the overwintering deer listed above will be adults in the October 2001 preseason estimate.)
Why didn't the buck harvest return to normal in 2003 as Alt and you predicted? Why has the 1.5 and 2.5+ buck harvest continued to decline since Ars were implemented?
11-04-2008, 09:13 PM
#453
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location:
Posts: 282
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Schuylkill County WCO Kevin Clouser is investigating a case in which three deer were shot with a small-caliber rifle and dumped at Kellner's Dam in Tamaqua. Clouser said he also has received reports of illegal deer shooting behind Tamaqua High School, at State Game Lands 222 in Walker Township and around Tuscarora State Park.
''I think there's quite a bit of shooting going on,'' Clouser said.
So do I. Much more than most people suspect.
''I think there's quite a bit of shooting going on,'' Clouser said.
So do I. Much more than most people suspect.
11-05-2008, 08:35 AM
#454
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: the outsider
Schuylkill County WCO Kevin Clouser is investigating a case in which three deer were shot with a small-caliber rifle and dumped at Kellner's Dam in Tamaqua. Clouser said he also has received reports of illegal deer shooting behind Tamaqua High School, at State Game Lands 222 in Walker Township and around Tuscarora State Park.
''I think there's quite a bit of shooting going on,'' Clouser said.
So do I. Much more than most people suspect.
Schuylkill County WCO Kevin Clouser is investigating a case in which three deer were shot with a small-caliber rifle and dumped at Kellner's Dam in Tamaqua. Clouser said he also has received reports of illegal deer shooting behind Tamaqua High School, at State Game Lands 222 in Walker Township and around Tuscarora State Park.
''I think there's quite a bit of shooting going on,'' Clouser said.
So do I. Much more than most people suspect.
in around schools or parks, they are using CROSSBOWS.
i think i heard at 1 park in centre or sulliavan county, they found over 21 arrows in grass after cutting it.
the only way this is going to stop is if the WCO is put on SALARY with no hours and days off.
this way he can be out there 10pm to 4 am and catch these poachers.
where i work, they put us all on SALARY.
they make us come out at night and on weekends, no overtime.
once they know the WCO is out at night reguarly and weekends, it will get reduced a lot.
right now, no one even sees a WCO here in clinton county,daylight or nightime.
so, poaching continues.
poachers hit hyner,pa this year and got some real wall hangers.
i believe that its same ones that cut heads off 5 bucks in rt144 near beech creek/swamp branch road,cant prove it but just what you hear going around.[:@]
11-05-2008, 08:45 PM
#455
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 147
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: sproulman
in around schools or parks, they are using CROSSBOWS.
i think i heard at 1 park in centre or sulliavan county, they found over 21 arrows in grass after cutting it.
the only way this is going to stop is if the WCO is put on SALARY with no hours and days off.
this way he can be out there 10pm to 4 am and catch these poachers.
where i work, they put us all on SALARY.
they make us come out at night and on weekends, no overtime.
once they know the WCO is out at night reguarly and weekends, it will get reduced a lot.
right now, no one even sees a WCO here in clinton county,daylight or nightime.
so, poaching continues.
poachers hit hyner,pa this year and got some real wall hangers.
i believe that its same ones that cut heads off 5 bucks in rt144 near beech creek/swamp branch road,cant prove it but just what you hear going around.[:@]
ORIGINAL: the outsider
Schuylkill County WCO Kevin Clouser is investigating a case in which three deer were shot with a small-caliber rifle and dumped at Kellner's Dam in Tamaqua. Clouser said he also has received reports of illegal deer shooting behind Tamaqua High School, at State Game Lands 222 in Walker Township and around Tuscarora State Park.
''I think there's quite a bit of shooting going on,'' Clouser said.
So do I. Much more than most people suspect.
Schuylkill County WCO Kevin Clouser is investigating a case in which three deer were shot with a small-caliber rifle and dumped at Kellner's Dam in Tamaqua. Clouser said he also has received reports of illegal deer shooting behind Tamaqua High School, at State Game Lands 222 in Walker Township and around Tuscarora State Park.
''I think there's quite a bit of shooting going on,'' Clouser said.
So do I. Much more than most people suspect.
in around schools or parks, they are using CROSSBOWS.
i think i heard at 1 park in centre or sulliavan county, they found over 21 arrows in grass after cutting it.
the only way this is going to stop is if the WCO is put on SALARY with no hours and days off.
this way he can be out there 10pm to 4 am and catch these poachers.
where i work, they put us all on SALARY.
they make us come out at night and on weekends, no overtime.
once they know the WCO is out at night reguarly and weekends, it will get reduced a lot.
right now, no one even sees a WCO here in clinton county,daylight or nightime.
so, poaching continues.
poachers hit hyner,pa this year and got some real wall hangers.
i believe that its same ones that cut heads off 5 bucks in rt144 near beech creek/swamp branch road,cant prove it but just what you hear going around.[:@]
They can’t put the WCOs on salary because the Federal Government ruled, in the Garcia Decision back in 1985, that all state and local governments have to pay time and a half for any work over 40 hours. There is no way the Game Commission could afford to pay that much overtime so they had to cut the hours that WCOs worked to only 40 hours with some very limited over time hours on top of that.
You are correct though that the poachers know we aren’t out there. I see them all the time driving past and checking to see if my state vehicle is here or not.
The real big change in enforcement has come from the decline in the deputy program over the past years though. Back when we had a larger more active deputy force they were the ones that caught most of the poachers. Even though most people don’t know it the deputies always were the real meat of the Game Commission’s law enforcement program. They were out there catching the poachers after the WCO spent all day taking care of the normal day to day business of the district, such as the wildlife complaints, school programs, hearings and normal after the fact investigations.
The deputies then were out there at night doing preventive law enforcement and catching the real poachers. But, over the years a lot of knot heads and politician launched attacks on the deputies and the entire deputy program. That resulted in many deputies quitting, more training for deputies and in general it got to the point where it is very hard to find deputies that are willing to go through all of the required hoops they have to go through just to do a thankless nearly volunteer job as a deputy today.
I have said all along that with the decline of the deputy program there would also be a decline in the protection of our resources. But, that is what many of the hunters and politicians of this state demanded, so now they will just have to live with the results of their demands.
R.S. Bodenhorn
11-05-2008, 09:33 PM
#456
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
reason i stated as you said is because OVERTIME is not going to happened.
i HATED being put on salary.
now they called me all time,2am get to work,5 am get to work.
having picnic on sat, get to work.
sick, get to work,on and on.
when we had OVERTIME,they never called us.
its like local police, we could not afford one,so residents voted,NO POLICE.
now, we are getting bro into ,so, now same people want something done for free.
so, state police met with us, yes, 5 people showed up at meeting.[:@]
no one wants involved but complain .
i assume same with PGC .
just like today, i saw one of OUTLAWS,window down on his truck with his wife on passenger side heading into woods for a GOOD ROAD HUNT.
he was arrested 2 times for shooting the ROBO DEER in 1 day
second time he shot deer he said,WHERE DID I HIT IT THIS TIME.[:@]
there he goes ,nothing bothers him.they got to get that MEAT.
they know no one is out there,most dont care anyhow because at least HALF are shooting out windows TOO.
i see it everytime i go out, vehicle after vehicle with windows down road hunting.
many, many with KIDS in front seat with rifles ready.
if doe sticks her head out, she is history.grouse/turkeys too.
i can see hunting getting a lot worst, in fact, this is worst year, so far in 47 years hunting in clinton/potter county,that i ever had.[:@]
i am out there 3 to 4 days a week in SPROUL.
i HATED being put on salary.
now they called me all time,2am get to work,5 am get to work.
having picnic on sat, get to work.
sick, get to work,on and on.
when we had OVERTIME,they never called us.
its like local police, we could not afford one,so residents voted,NO POLICE.
now, we are getting bro into ,so, now same people want something done for free.
so, state police met with us, yes, 5 people showed up at meeting.[:@]
no one wants involved but complain .
i assume same with PGC .
just like today, i saw one of OUTLAWS,window down on his truck with his wife on passenger side heading into woods for a GOOD ROAD HUNT.
he was arrested 2 times for shooting the ROBO DEER in 1 day
second time he shot deer he said,WHERE DID I HIT IT THIS TIME.[:@]there he goes ,nothing bothers him.they got to get that MEAT.
they know no one is out there,most dont care anyhow because at least HALF are shooting out windows TOO.
i see it everytime i go out, vehicle after vehicle with windows down road hunting.
many, many with KIDS in front seat with rifles ready.
if doe sticks her head out, she is history.grouse/turkeys too.
i can see hunting getting a lot worst, in fact, this is worst year, so far in 47 years hunting in clinton/potter county,that i ever had.[:@]
i am out there 3 to 4 days a week in SPROUL.
12-20-2009, 10:15 AM
#457
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lebanon PA
Posts: 5
Ok; here you go people; come & voice your opinion! Board of Game Commissioners to meet on Jan. 24-26, 2010
The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners will hold its first meeting of 2010 on Jan. 24, 25 and 26, in the agency’s Harrisburg headquarters, 2001 Elmerton Ave., just off the Progress Avenue exit of Interstate 81. A copy of the agenda for the meeting will be posted on the agency's website prior to the meeting.
On Sunday, Jan. 24, beginning at 1 p.m., the Board will hear public recommendations for 2001-11 hunting and trapping seasons and bag limits. Doors will open at noon. Individuals interested in offering public testimony - limited to five minutes -- may begin to register at noon on a first-come, first-to-speak basis.
On Monday, Jan. 25, the Board will gather any additional public comments and hear Game Commission staff reports beginning at 8:30 a.m. Doors open at 7:45 a.m. Registration for those interested in offering public testimony - limited to five minutes - also will begin at that time.
On Tuesday, Jan. 26, beginning at 8:30 a.m., the Game Commission will take up its prepared agenda to, among other things, give preliminary approval to hunting and trapping seasons and bag limits for 2010-11. Doors open at 7:45 a.m. Antlerless deer license allocations for the 2010-11 seasons will be presented for the Board to consider at its meeting in April. Harvest results from the 2009-10 deer seasons will be announced in mid-March.
Also, on Jan. 26, the Board will set its other meeting dates for 2010. _________________________
Every day is better than the last!!!
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The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners will hold its first meeting of 2010 on Jan. 24, 25 and 26, in the agency’s Harrisburg headquarters, 2001 Elmerton Ave., just off the Progress Avenue exit of Interstate 81. A copy of the agenda for the meeting will be posted on the agency's website prior to the meeting.
On Sunday, Jan. 24, beginning at 1 p.m., the Board will hear public recommendations for 2001-11 hunting and trapping seasons and bag limits. Doors will open at noon. Individuals interested in offering public testimony - limited to five minutes -- may begin to register at noon on a first-come, first-to-speak basis.
On Monday, Jan. 25, the Board will gather any additional public comments and hear Game Commission staff reports beginning at 8:30 a.m. Doors open at 7:45 a.m. Registration for those interested in offering public testimony - limited to five minutes - also will begin at that time.
On Tuesday, Jan. 26, beginning at 8:30 a.m., the Game Commission will take up its prepared agenda to, among other things, give preliminary approval to hunting and trapping seasons and bag limits for 2010-11. Doors open at 7:45 a.m. Antlerless deer license allocations for the 2010-11 seasons will be presented for the Board to consider at its meeting in April. Harvest results from the 2009-10 deer seasons will be announced in mid-March.
Also, on Jan. 26, the Board will set its other meeting dates for 2010. _________________________
Every day is better than the last!!!
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12-20-2009, 01:07 PM
#458
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
Not to say I don't think some care, but I would be truly shocked any meaningful changes were even considered.
Just like last nights vote for health care by Ben Knight was bought and paid for, any change in how PA's game is mismanaged will come with a high price tag .
I for one am getting tired of the excuses that they have to manage for "all" of the states wildlife, it seems the hunt able species get the "whats left" of the budgeted monies.
I'll bet you if some one was poaching woods rats , blue birds or red tailed hawks they would quickly find the monies to arrest and prosecute these poachers.
I really have lost any faith that we as hunters are more than an meal ticket to the higher ups at the PGC.
Just like last nights vote for health care by Ben Knight was bought and paid for, any change in how PA's game is mismanaged will come with a high price tag .
I for one am getting tired of the excuses that they have to manage for "all" of the states wildlife, it seems the hunt able species get the "whats left" of the budgeted monies.
I'll bet you if some one was poaching woods rats , blue birds or red tailed hawks they would quickly find the monies to arrest and prosecute these poachers.
I really have lost any faith that we as hunters are more than an meal ticket to the higher ups at the PGC.
