Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
09-09-2008, 10:26 AM
#21
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
I agree that CWD is a risk that we do not want to exacerbate. I was just throwing out some suggestions which in certain circumstances can improve the quality of deer pops in some areas which are extremely deficient in numbers. The cwd is a threat in food supplies only if that food supply was grown and harvestedfrom contaminated soil. In almost all cases those who supplement feed are doing so with foods grown locally to that location. If the risk of CWD is there it already has affected the local population and will spread whether food is supplemented or not.
I am notsuggesting this forthe guy dumping a 100 lbs of corn a week before season and expecting mature buck to be drawn to that new alien source. Mature deer will check out these dump piles but are on alert when doing so. Yes, it will create a more efficient kill in some cases, but no more than planting apple trees and hunt plots where the soil allows. The risk of cross contamination of cwd among deer feeding in the same area is just as serious among common watering sources.
There is also this to consider....This supplemented feeding will help those who manage or own private lands or lease lands. The club I belong to spends $500 a month supplying deer with feed added with nutrients they wouldn't otherwise be able toconsumefrom just crops alone. So, those who spend this kind of money and put this kind of work into the deer herd are able to increase the odds of keeping the "preferred" AR legalbuck around to survive another year to become those in the 130" class and above. Some who do not have the desire to put this amount of effort and money into increasing the quality of the bucks dislike clubs having the ability to do this. I understand that mindset. But I also believe you deserve to get out of something what you put into it. I know these types of hunters who spend this kind of $ are a minority, however we should have the ability to manage the deer on our properties the way we determine to be most beneficial. (speaking food, not shooting whatever whenever we want)
I do not like the idea of allowing any stringed weapon to be considered archery. The majority of archers list one of the reasons for archery hunting as having less slob hunters in the woods. Less hunters in the woods keeps the deer at relative ease until the influx of rifle hunters invade the woods turning most of the deer nocturnal. Allow crossbows and you'll see as many deer in archery as you do in rifle.
Legislation is currently being considered to allow crossbows to be considered archery weapons. If it has a scope, trigger and a rifle style stock-it is not a truearchery weapon.Let those with disabilities have the advantage, they need it not the rest of us. I also like the idea of having to get a deer close in order to shoot it. Some crossbows have the ability of hitting targets at 60 yds. It takes the stealth and need of overcoming the deer's survival instincts out of the scenario. In my mind a crossbow is too similar to being a rifle in the way it shoots and more hunters will lose theirpride in and sense oftradition in archery hunting opting to choose another easier method. Then we the true archers will be the minority.
I do agree with going back to the old doe season after rifle. It worked and didn't need to be changed. Since it has things have gotten worse.
I agree weapons like the TC Encore should be included as a muzzleloader instead of just the flintlock. When it comes to a rifle I believe in increasing the accuracy of the shot. I wouldn't mind if the state went to muzzleloader only for deer. One shot one kill, not 5 shots in one deer to drop it. If it takes you more than 2 shots you belong on the range not in the woods.
I am notsuggesting this forthe guy dumping a 100 lbs of corn a week before season and expecting mature buck to be drawn to that new alien source. Mature deer will check out these dump piles but are on alert when doing so. Yes, it will create a more efficient kill in some cases, but no more than planting apple trees and hunt plots where the soil allows. The risk of cross contamination of cwd among deer feeding in the same area is just as serious among common watering sources.
There is also this to consider....This supplemented feeding will help those who manage or own private lands or lease lands. The club I belong to spends $500 a month supplying deer with feed added with nutrients they wouldn't otherwise be able toconsumefrom just crops alone. So, those who spend this kind of money and put this kind of work into the deer herd are able to increase the odds of keeping the "preferred" AR legalbuck around to survive another year to become those in the 130" class and above. Some who do not have the desire to put this amount of effort and money into increasing the quality of the bucks dislike clubs having the ability to do this. I understand that mindset. But I also believe you deserve to get out of something what you put into it. I know these types of hunters who spend this kind of $ are a minority, however we should have the ability to manage the deer on our properties the way we determine to be most beneficial. (speaking food, not shooting whatever whenever we want)
I do not like the idea of allowing any stringed weapon to be considered archery. The majority of archers list one of the reasons for archery hunting as having less slob hunters in the woods. Less hunters in the woods keeps the deer at relative ease until the influx of rifle hunters invade the woods turning most of the deer nocturnal. Allow crossbows and you'll see as many deer in archery as you do in rifle.
Legislation is currently being considered to allow crossbows to be considered archery weapons. If it has a scope, trigger and a rifle style stock-it is not a truearchery weapon.Let those with disabilities have the advantage, they need it not the rest of us. I also like the idea of having to get a deer close in order to shoot it. Some crossbows have the ability of hitting targets at 60 yds. It takes the stealth and need of overcoming the deer's survival instincts out of the scenario. In my mind a crossbow is too similar to being a rifle in the way it shoots and more hunters will lose theirpride in and sense oftradition in archery hunting opting to choose another easier method. Then we the true archers will be the minority.
I do agree with going back to the old doe season after rifle. It worked and didn't need to be changed. Since it has things have gotten worse.
I agree weapons like the TC Encore should be included as a muzzleloader instead of just the flintlock. When it comes to a rifle I believe in increasing the accuracy of the shot. I wouldn't mind if the state went to muzzleloader only for deer. One shot one kill, not 5 shots in one deer to drop it. If it takes you more than 2 shots you belong on the range not in the woods.
09-09-2008, 10:35 AM
#22
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
I will be the first to admit I do not know everything and I may be incorrect in my assumption of the influence of insurance companies. Till I can prove otherwise I will concede (for now). There is however some unseen forces at work within the PAGC other than timber profits and the such. If not this obvious mismanaging of deer pops in certain areas would not be happening.
09-09-2008, 10:38 AM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
It isn't up to you or I to decide which studies are necessary or unnecessary. That's why they have biololgists on the staff, to help bureau directors, administrations and BOC members make such decisions.
09-09-2008, 10:45 AM
#24
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 522
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
The buck dispersal study, the fawn survival study and the adult doe survival study were interesting , but did nothing to improve deer management, or the health of the herd and were equivalent of public relation campaign to mislead hunters into believing the herd was being managed based on science rather than political influence.
Feel free to further expound on how such studies did nothing to improve deer management.
Feel free to further expound on how such studies did nothing to improve deer management.
09-09-2008, 10:49 AM
#25
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
I agree with things remaining the same due to the current political structure. I attended a bow hunter education class recently. After the warden finished teaching his don't harm the trees lecture (which comprised 1/2 the 45 min lesson) he claimed the commission recieves little feedback from the hunters in regard to concerns. He claimed a "hot topic" was 7 letters. The part I find troubling is most hunters feel the commission doesn't give a s!#+ and won't do anything anyway. I feel the same way. It's difficult for someone to get a live person to answer the phone, forget about them returning your call.
09-09-2008, 11:36 AM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Feel free to further expound on how such studies did nothing to improve deer management.
Maybe you would like to expound on how those studies improved deer management!
09-09-2008, 11:44 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
[quote][ agree with things remaining the same due to the current political structure. I attended a bow hunter education class recently. After the warden finished teaching his don't harm the trees lecture (which comprised 1/2 the 45 min lesson) he claimed the commission recieves little feedback from the hunters in regard to concerns. He claimed a "hot topic" was 7 letters. The part I find troubling is most hunters feel the commission doesn't give a s!#+ and won't do anything anyway. I feel the same way. It's difficult for someone to get a live person to answer the phone, forget about them returning your call. /quote]
You covered a lot of ground w/ that statement! Trees, cut them down and let the undergrowth come up. We selective harvest trees and I garuantee the deer come runniong to that sound. In addition to turkey, grouse (suprisingly) and deer that move into the thickets for protectionn etc. Cut them trees!
I can't call anyone a liar of I don't work in the office w/ them but 7 letters? Hell, just get on any web site forum that has an association w/ PA and you will get reams of mis and information. Jeeze. there we go w/the PAPGC thinking we do not have a clue and them knowing they are responsible only to themselves. I want o be constructive in crottcizing the PAPGC but they have just peed on our deer stand for too long, I truly beleive very few give a darn about our thoughts and beleifs.
I hunt mostly in 2D and we do NOT have a deer problem. The only problem we have w/ deer is a lot of them and the PAPGC not enforcing the laws against the Amish hunters.
I was very suprised to see that the hunt in the foirst week of gunwas buck only and doe in the second week, that also left a lot of doe tags in 2D which really suproised me. They don't get that people cannot or do not take a week of anymore for hunting camp. Phenom of the past sorry to say. So the regular guy will not be out the forst day after a buck but wait for that one day off for the doe/meat hunt. That should be a real shootout !
When you mention scopes and Xbows be aware that Compounds have some of the most sophisticated missle sites I have seen in the the world and military. I would not think that is a good argument for excluding a Xbow hunter form your clubs.
You covered a lot of ground w/ that statement! Trees, cut them down and let the undergrowth come up. We selective harvest trees and I garuantee the deer come runniong to that sound. In addition to turkey, grouse (suprisingly) and deer that move into the thickets for protectionn etc. Cut them trees!
I can't call anyone a liar of I don't work in the office w/ them but 7 letters? Hell, just get on any web site forum that has an association w/ PA and you will get reams of mis and information. Jeeze. there we go w/the PAPGC thinking we do not have a clue and them knowing they are responsible only to themselves. I want o be constructive in crottcizing the PAPGC but they have just peed on our deer stand for too long, I truly beleive very few give a darn about our thoughts and beleifs.
I hunt mostly in 2D and we do NOT have a deer problem. The only problem we have w/ deer is a lot of them and the PAPGC not enforcing the laws against the Amish hunters.
I was very suprised to see that the hunt in the foirst week of gunwas buck only and doe in the second week, that also left a lot of doe tags in 2D which really suproised me. They don't get that people cannot or do not take a week of anymore for hunting camp. Phenom of the past sorry to say. So the regular guy will not be out the forst day after a buck but wait for that one day off for the doe/meat hunt. That should be a real shootout !
When you mention scopes and Xbows be aware that Compounds have some of the most sophisticated missle sites I have seen in the the world and military. I would not think that is a good argument for excluding a Xbow hunter form your clubs.
09-09-2008, 12:52 PM
#29
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 522
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
Maybe you would like to expound on how those studies improved deer management!
I'm not the one constantly whining about what it is that they're doing wrong, so since you've made the negative comments, you are the one that needs to explain yourself, not I.
I'm not the one constantly whining about what it is that they're doing wrong, so since you've made the negative comments, you are the one that needs to explain yourself, not I.
09-09-2008, 01:14 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
ORIGINAL: DennyF
Maybe you would like to expound on how those studies improved deer management!
I'm not the one constantly whining about what it is that they're doing wrong, so since you've made the negative comments, you are the one that needs to explain yourself, not I.
Maybe you would like to expound on how those studies improved deer management!
I'm not the one constantly whining about what it is that they're doing wrong, so since you've made the negative comments, you are the one that needs to explain yourself, not I.