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RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Another scientific puzzler: If someone gets booted from here, can they spend a yearregeneratin'under the canopy and still survive toemerge from the fernsas someone else?

RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Quote:

Can't have it both ways BB.Should there or should there not be shade tolerant trees growing in the understory?You already admitted there should be.Do you want me to show you some examples of not only seedlings making it past the ferns?

You are intentionally misrepresenting what I posted. I did not say there was a mid level understory in the woods I reported on. I said the shading was so intense that it killed the well developed shade tolerant spice bush and you could see 75 yds. even with the leaves on. I also pointed out that no one expects to see a mid level understory ,in pole timber stands, that is within reach of the deer.

RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

I'm still trying to figure out how an area with a thick canopy and no sun penetration that's within 20 yards of a recent cut, still gets no sunshine at least once during the day time?

RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Here's an assessment of a tract in 2G that seems pretty representative of much of the northern tier:

Quote:

Elk State Forest District #13
Regeneration sampling conducted in the early spring of 2006 indicated significant browsing pressure. Browsing of forest regeneration continues at a level that is inhibiting the natural regeneration on the Elk State Forest. In consideration of the above we feel it is necessary to maintain deer densities at a level where forest regeneration can develop.
[ul][*]39% of the plots sampled had no forest regeneration[*]Of the plots with regeneration, 78% are stocked with undesirable species[*]Only 14% of the plots sampled were stocked with desirable regeneration[*]Browsing of tree species was encountered on 75% of the sample plots that had desirable or acceptable regeneration [/ul]
In consideration of the above we feel it is necessary to maintain deer densities at a level where forest regeneration can develop in response to canopy removal without the need to construct deer exclosures. DMAP is a necessary tool to this end.

No mention of canopy effect. The trees are sprouting but they are being eaten.

RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

That is probably from the same bogus DCNR Browsing Impact Study that failed to report the lack of regeneration caused by coniferous stands, high basal area stands ,competing vegetation or herbicide treatment.
How many oak seedlings would you expect to find under a dense stand of white pine or hemlock?

RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Why does it always have to be about oak?

RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Because oak is one of our most valuable tree species and it is the one that is having the most problems with regeneration.

RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Now that deer numbers are said to be virtually non-existant inmany areas,according to some, perhaps this desirable oak regen will begin to thrive again?

RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

Remember: there are regions that willNOT grow an oak tree.
If we want to get purist now, we would have to go back to the expanse of white pine and hemlock, with areas of dense chestnut.
WHY WON"T THEY GROW BACK???? BOOHOO!!

RE: PGC burning sgl in pa.

You really surprised me with that comment. It appears that you understand man is working against nature by trying to force nature to regenerate specific species of commercially valuable timber under entirely different conditions than when the current stands were formed. The effects of forest fires , erosion and acid rain have created entirely different conditions than when our current stands of oak were established.