OK, so who came up with these AR/QDM theories anyway? Was it some unbiased biologists who had absolutely NO interest in trophy hunting or wasn't financed by trophy hunters? Exactly what difference does it make in controlling deer numbers (which is the states primary responsibility with a deer hunting season) in how big a bucks rack happens to be when it gets shot by a hunter? Other than giving a hunter a bigger rack to show off, it makes absolutely NO difference in the scheme of things. What makes you think only "older, higher quality bucks" will do the breeding? So what if that yearling buck might breed a doe? Doesn't a buck have the same genetic makeup at 1 1/2 as he does at 3 1/2? All the points you make can be refuted, but it needs to be looked at with an open mind. These theories serve the trophy hunter mindset way MORE than it will ever serve the deer in the various habitats they live in.

1) Name me 2 good biological reasons for whiping out a herd???????????????????????
2) show me biological fact that states that "only the older high quality survivor bucks will breed" ?
Charles alsheimer himself states that it's impossible for only "good" bucks to breed,,,i've seen it myself when two big bucks will be sparring and chasin each other off only to have a small spike buck come in and breed the doe!!!!!!!!
3) and last but not least show mw where in the hunting world has AR and Hr produced a better herd based on the fact that you are improving habitat,,,i dont care how much browse you give a deer it will not improve their antler growth and genetic layout,,,seasonal foodplots,,,minerals,,,and protein by product are whats gonna stimulate antler growth and produce better genes

1.The herd has not been wiped out.Unfortunately,in some cases it had to be greatly reduced to give the habitat a chance to recover.
2.Bucks in all age classes will breed.
3.Are you serious.The health of the herd is totaly dependent on the state of the habitat.Better habitat will prodice bigger more healthy deer and much better fawn recruitment rates.More high quality browse will most certainly invrease both boody weight and antlergrowth.
4.Protein has nothing to do with genetics.

The herd has not been wiped out.Unfortunately

Nowthose words sounds like they came out of the mouth of the DCNRor theAudubon. [:@]

You're right Doug. Bucks of all age classes will breed. With a reduced population and improved buck / doe ratio, there will be less breeding done per buck, thus reducing the stress on bucks and improving their health.

According to adog breeder I spoke with, breeding just wipes a stud out for a few days. I wonder if that's true with deer. If so, it would be better to have more bucks around to do the breeding, rather than one buckper ~10 does.

I strongly have to disagree with this. Under PA law, all the younger bucks bucks are protected while the"higher quality"bucks are fair game. Last year I counted 2 mature bucks and 6 young bucks on my hunting property. One of the mature bucks was taken long before the start of the rut. How does that ensure that only the "quality" buck will breed?

Also, since young bucksare protected,theydont necessarily have to be "survivors" to live to older ages.

overall statewide the racks being brought in are bigger.
As for herd reduction it all depends on the area you are hunting.Some public lands with unlimited access have been overharvested and some places with enough limited access the deer numbers are still in good shape.

Come on Lost Horn. You can do better than that, Taking parts of two sentences to make a completely different meaning makes me wonder if you work for the DNC or the media!

I'm voting for obama.A dude with the same name as the nutbag that masterminded 9/11.

Yeah right

here in WMU2G of pa.
i have hunted the following counties for 50 years,sou potter,clinton,cameron,sou lycoming,centre..

first,AR we felt is great thing,we did not like the part that kids could shoot little bucks as we felt the adults would shoot the bucks and have kids tag it..
is this being done,YES.it should be 3 points or 4 for ALL.

now for HR,it went to far in most of those counties above.
last year you could get 2 DOE TAGS and 6 DMAP TAGS HERE IN CLINTON ALONE..thats 8 doe tags..
this year,1doe tag AND 3 DMAP TAGS,thats 4 doe each..

thats just crazy and is reason that doe/fawns are very scare.

it used to be that we would sit around camp and talk about buck that got away, you know what MOST of hunters talk about now,I GOT A BIG SUPPLY OF DEER BOLONA IN FRIG..


we are losing sportsman now,i see some still but are giving up hunting and ones i see left, not all but a lot are only interested in filling all those doe tags and bragging about DEER JERKY..

i heard guy talk about all grouse he got last year and all MEAT,he rides roads in 3 counties..
i said you could have bought 90 store bought turkeys for all gas you spent riding around..
this is THINKING of most of hunters i am seeing now,they will shoot every grouse/rabbit/doe/fawn/turkey that they have license to fill.

sportsman are still out there but OUR numbers are dropping and we are losing battle to protect our DOE/FAWNS so we have huntable numbers of deer ..

how the PGC can say there is over population of deer in places like WMU2G,when you have MILES of land with NO DEER..

from my reports this year many hunters saw NO DEER,1 deer or 2 deer for 2 weeks of hunting.
some nice bucks were killed but most said they saw NO FAWNS and ones they did see were layingin the truck bed.

how someone can kill FAWN when there are very few deer left is beyond reasoning, it all comes back to,FILL THAT TAG FOR THAT DEER JERKY..

this is NEW hunter now..........