kill all deer in PA
 

I hunt and live in PA. Isthis just me or does this sound rediculous. They Game commission has gave out 800,000 (60,000more could sell out) tags for doe + the other 20 thousand for dmap areas on state parks, plus all the red Tag that they give outevery year. Supposebly their has been 1.6 million deer4 years ago-They have been giving tags like this for the past4 years. This sounds like a crappie management plan to me and has not impressed me. I am a great hunter that knows all about deer and deer management. I have workedfor Penn State deer research unit and have received a b.s. in wildlife , and associate in wildlife tech. You cant tell me that their is to many deer out their. The only place their is deer is where their posted property Period.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Penn State didn't teach you much on proper grammer though did they? ;) [8D] Just razz'n ya...lol Oh and there is alot of b.s in wildlife on these forums. :D

Hey, I'll move this to the Northeast forum, it's better suited there.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

I know where I hunt the farmer has a lot tags for crop damage.We kill a whole pile of doe on this PRIVATE PROPERTY. thats what i love about it. I don't have to deal with numb nutsrunning around spooking all the deer out of the area with their so called scouting.There are also all the cry babiesin rifle that walktwo steps out of their car andwonder why they didn't shoot anything. I used to hunt game lands and have seen deer but there are too may dip sh ts so I huntPRIVATE PROPERTY. I suggest you do the same!

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Glad you figured that out there class of 54[8D]

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Isnt this the Northeast forum:)

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Another "expert" [:'(]

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

One of my stepsons graduated from PSU in '92 with an engineering degree. His spelling and grammar are both atrocious, but when he cannot change a flat on his car, drive a nail straight or sort out how to assemble a kid's bike, I generally make the same observation: "5 years at Penn State andyou can't even...."(fill in the blank).

He's sorta used to it by now, no longer even cusses when the opportunity arises for meto use that phrase. And it still arises often.

:)

Another expert indeed. Most of us have little trouble finding and killing deer in all parts of PA, be they on public or private land. 900,000 licensed hunters, of which at least 800,000 probably hunt deer.Nearly half as many deer killed each year, as the number of people who hunt them. Someone has a clue.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Uh, yeah but I responded to it and moved it from the Bowhunting forum. ;) That's okay, you'll learn one of these days grasshopper. :D

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Uh, here's a quote from our new "expert"in another thread.....

Only one word comes to mind in response........hypocrite!!! [:'(]


Sounds like he'd be more comfortable and among friends on the USP's website

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Simply Amazing! I guess he doesn't want anyone else to kill any deer, just him. Everyone should quit shooting does and let the herd rebound so this bonehead can shoot 5 deer. Someone needs to look in the mirror and see what a hypocrite looks like.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Speaking of that outfit, I can't figure our how they manage to mangle figures with such regularity. Lately I've found several postings that list their membership at 30,000, 40,000 and 60,000. Can't figure if their turnover/recruitment is in a constant state of flux...or whether they're just numerically challenged?

One of their spokespersons made the statement earlier this year at a public venue, that PA's deer herd will be down to 50,000 by 2009. Found another comment on a women's hunting site, where one femaleproponent claimed there are now only 250,000 deer left in PA.

They claim that we've killed too many deer, but can't decide if we've killed2.5 million or 3 million over the past several seasons, yet the basis of their latest law suit is primarily based on the game commission's faulty sytem of counting deer.

:eek:

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

fuzzy math

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

go ask the car insurance companies how many deer are in pa. i'm sure they will tell you quite a few.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

All I know is that i got more Bucks mounted on my wall than most of you and i am only 25. I can kill deer whenever i want to it is not hard to me. If i dont kill them someone else is that what i have learned over the past 5 years. I kill doe that need to be killed, doe that are over 4 Or 5 years old-- For you that dont know--Doesonly produce one deer after that around 80 percent of the time it is a doe. I shoot the deer where They are overpopulated mostly posted land that the where i got the landowners permission. If you think that only 450,000 deer are killed a year your not very smart. THey give out a Million+ tags. Pennsylvania hunters for the most part are hunters-They kill. Add in the roadkills, Aphis, Diseased animals, and natural predation. I am simply stating that their is a spotty deer population where their is a few to No animals. The forest health is fine. I do not see any overbrowsing in my management zones unless its heavily posted, Which is the problem in the first place-Its posted And its not being managed properly. Also i thought that this Was a hunting forum. I have to Spell this wrong so that most of us rednEckss can understand what i am saying. Or is This an English forum?????Should i proofread, and make drafts before i can submit it????I hope you dont rely on the Game Commissions Numbers to much. IF you look at The ''Numbers'' You will notice that we killed 700,00+ deer One year and the "Numbers" have Been decreasing since. Will they continue to add more tags to get they get thedeer kill down to under 300,000. We must not be doing our Job As hunters because we only killed 450,000 deer. We need to increase licenses. Sounds Great. That great management. Kill all the deer were you are allowed too, because you cant hunt deer were its posted--Make up for it.Thats great--That will produce more bucks...I see immature bucks breeding together and reproducing all the time..or do does Make Bucks??? No doe's no deer herd,,No bigger Bucks PERIOD. I would Like to see you guys hunt after the first day in game lands in Central PA were their is a high population of hunters.Tell me then that the game commission is doing a fine Job.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Of course their is a high incident of car accidents with deer..Are Woods are highly fragmited. A deer has to cross roads to get to food,breed, or get water. Their natural tendencies are to walk around at beggining of sunset or sunset...or even wort at night when visibility is highly restricted

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

They want to have 3-5 deer per square mile....Go to Valley forge where their is 260+ deer a square mile. DOnt get me wrong thats a lot of deer but not as many as you think.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Ive seen those deer over at Valley Forge at nite its amazing.Correct me if Im wrong you cant hunt them because its a National Park so in comes the sharpshooters.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Thanks for the laughs Mikepsu54.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

I'm very sorry to question your credentials, but you don't seem to have graduated high school , let alone P.S.U.

"their" should be "there" , "Are" should be "Our" , "fragmited" should be "fragmented" , etc., etc.

I know several people at the P.S. Dubois campus that are Wildlife students and their school of thought is that the P.G.C. is correct in their management practice's.Penn State works closely with the P.G.C.
I am questioning weather you are what you say you are.
Do you have a B.S. from the U.S.P.?

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

I have to Agree with you archer58. This guy should not be taken seriusly. His posts are full of flaws onscholastic and practical levels.
He might have a BS degree though! [:'(]

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

It would seem that a tactic of the U.S.P., is to have it's members join hunting forums and try to gain some support.
I just can't figure out why most of them can't spell.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

What he initially meant to say was he received a B.S. from U.S.P, not P.S.U!!!! It was just a spelling error to go with the rest of his spelling/grammar errors!;)

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

The more he talks, the less everyone listens.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

My response about Pa. deer heard is this. First: Fellow hunters, please do not bash another hunter who complains about not seeing deer. Yes there is plenty who spend no days in the woods until the season arrives, then come opening day he blindly walks into the woods and expects to kill a deer, and we all know most likely what the end result is going to be! "But!" there are plenty of hunters who have been complaining about our deer program and I believe it is justified.Here are some of my views. First about me:[/align]I'm strictly a bowhunter. I have harvested 27 buck with a bow. Seven of the bucks that I killed will score 130 to 148 being the biggest. All taken before our new deer program. Now, Gary Alt takes over the deer program and is all gun-ho about turning our deer program around. Good! "But," even though I believe his heart was in the right place, his head was not. I really believe a little ego played into some of his decisions.He stated many times, I"m going to make PA. the pioneer in deer management. Well Gary was not the pioneer nor even close. Quality deer management started in Texas in 1969. Now over the last three years, quit a few hunters have been complaining about NO deer in there area. Well according to Leonard Larue the III, Doctor James Kroll and Charles Alshiemer,this is over 100 years of combined deer experience, by shooting off the mature doe early, you can temporarily cause a void of deer, even in prime habitat.Because is natural for the young deer to disperse.This is how a void CAN happen. Next: deer collisions. Sorry, this should NEVER account towards how many deer we should harvest. Now before anyone starts bashing me,please let me explain. There are to many variables that go into deer to car collisions. EXAMPLES: There is no doubt, we have taken the deer numbers down in my area in unit 2c. This winter I visited just 5 high schools and talked to the head of the schools drivers-Ed program. These 5 schools put out over 3,000 new drivers on the road. Point: you can have only one deer in your area, but the amount of more drivers every year, you are still going to INCREASE the chance deer to vehicle collisions. Another one for collisions, they had worked on a major highway in my area for over two years now. For over a two month period, the traffic was being detoured off the highway through rural areas. For a two month span, the detour did increase thenumber of deer collisions. One more, about 3 miles from my house, is farm house with some decent number of deer in the area. It has been for years a noted spot for deer crossing. And most of the time, it was your usual very early morning,late evening and the rut, that you would see deer cross at this farm. Now, you can have deer flying across the road in front of you at any time. More deer? absolutely not! The new owner has two St.Bernard's that he likes to let roam at will and they have deer running at all times of the day. And I have a few more, but I think I made my point about to many variables that play into deer to car collisions. Last one: When Gary started this program and set up the new management units and the hunters said they are to big. He responded, the units are made up of similar habitat make up. Well like I stated earlier, I live in unit 2c. My house is located on the edge of town with most pieces of woods being 10 acres or less. I would say you can classify this asurban deer. Just two miles down the road is typical farm country, I would classify thissuburban deer area. And just 25 minutes do east, I'm in the Chestnut ridge, mountain deer area. So we got three distinct types of habitat that the deer are using, but being managed as one! Knowledgeable hunters have been trying to point all this out since the start of the new deer program. But we hunters are being told by the Pa. Game Commission we need to STAY THE COURSE! The course has been OFF TRACK to long!![/align][/align]

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

I'll play along....

Shooting mature does off early createss a void....maybe if you killed EVERY doe during an early season, I could see that. But the amount of deer taken early in this state is surely not going to create any "voids" of deer. AND its been thought that shooting mom, keeps the dispersal rates lower.

like it or not, deer are not just targets for hunters. Man/deer conflicts do and will forever have an impact on how many deer we are able too keep in a population. PA hats lots of roads and lots of drivers who don't pay attention and run over deer. THis raises cane on down the line. therefor we need to try and keep the numbers lower and hope there are less collisions. I don't like it either, but that's how it is these days.

What many are failing to grasp was the issue that the numbers of deer were too high for the habitats to support in a healthy manner for both the deer and the habitat itself. It's much more complex than managing for jimbob who wants to see 20 deer everytime he steps foot in the woods.

And yea I agree about the units, they should be smaller, but even in a small unit you could go from town to no where in a short period of time. they aren't going to create units that circle every little town.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Dear rybohunter

My point was first, hunters bashing hunters who complain about not seeing deer.
That some are legit. Again the three biologists that I mentioned, said they experienced voids when taken mature does early. That the young DO disperse.
And this happened on there property with limited hunting. So with the pressure
some area's get in our state, it is possible to create a SHORT TERM VOID OF DEER. The collisions, I agree with you about if to many deer. Again, I pointed out some variables that caused an increase in collisions that deer density had no part of. And yes it would be totally crazy trying to break down every little section of the state. But I believe it would be better to back to a county by county deer management.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Unless you have almost no deer to begin with,and shoot EVERY doe you see, I can't buy into this "void" of deer theory, I don't care if the Pope says it happens. This is the first time in all my learning about deer that I have ever heard of it.


I agree county size or smaller would be ok, but I like the use of roads/rivers as boundries.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

that

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Gobbler g understands because he lives in 2c.I know that the pittsburgh area has had a deer problem for a long time.......why dont you hunters do something about it down their????Or are you trying and just not good enough of hunters to get the job done.
.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

County zones would lead to better deermanagement. excellent point.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

[quote] From Archer58
I'm very sorry to question your credentials, but you don't seem to have graduated high school , let alone P.S.U.

I know several people at the P.S. Dubois campus that are Wildlife students and their school of thought is that the P.G.C. is correct in their management practice's.Penn State works closely with the P.G.C.
I am questioning weather you are what you say you are.

Weather or Whether

Tell you the truth i dont think that i can trust your credentials. You dont know anything about PG and penn state. What do they work together on.........Nothing. I Know joe hummer very well....Do you Know who he is???What is your belief on allowing bowhunting in Treasure lake...I Know what Penn State suggested do you. I killed some nice bucks near reynoldsville. The four point restriction has produce some massive whitetails in that area.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Texas has amazing deer management. ITs a desert. THe state produces some of the biggest whitetails in the world.Their is no reason why are state can't be better. We have Feed and genetics. WE just need age..Why dont we let them young bucks grow up....I like the 4 point rule i would like to see it get expanded

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

rybohunter
Your relative's must have been big into the Passenger pigeon. THey thought ..ah there's millions upon millions of them lets shoot them all. LAst time i checked the passenger pigeon population has been thriving? OR how about the elk Population in PA.....Dont give me that bull crap about they are thriving either. These elk that we have now are not the same species that pennsylvania historically had. We introduced THem-After we wiped out the entire population. THeir was not a single one remaining....Or what about the beaver. We wiped them out too. AllI am saying is to keep an open mind and dont believe everythig you here. I misspelled that for you-cause i know everybody here's a grammar major...Hope you didnt miss it hear.I not saying that we will make deer exctint, just that it's a poor management strategy

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Gobbler G i commend you...You know what you are talking about.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Gobbler, I don’t care if a guy complains about not seeing deer as long as he doesn’t bash the PGC as trying to decimate or eliminate deer or being in a conspiracy, etc etc.
I think they should leave the conspiracy theories alone and do some real learning about wildlife biology.

Your biologists must have been talking about young “bucks” dispersing.
Doe fawns are not known to disperse and I think it is only about 30% of immature bucks disperse. That dispersal of yearling bucks happens as an act of nature and is not hunting related.

I doubt the “void” thing, but I’m not sure what you are saying a “void” is. It is not a wildlife biology term that I am aware of.
And any time you remove “any animal” it creates a temporary void, not matter what the age of that animal is.
A “short term void of deer” is called “management by hunting.” A complete void is not even a reasonable reality to imagine.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

30% are you serious....So you are pretty much saying that the entire deer population is inbred..Not True...Immature Buck dispersal is much greater than that....So what you are truly saying is that you can eliminate deer in areas because deer truly dont disperse..Are you sure that you are not contradicting yourself????I never said they were trying to eliminate all the deer in the entire state...Just certain area's are really suffering from this Deer management practice. Doe fawns usually live within 1 mile of their birth site. Buck Disperse-Usually at 1.5 years of age. THey have been know to travel as much as 22 miles away from their birth site.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

The true fact is that when you harvest a mother...The fawns tend to stay in that area which drastically reduces dispersion. A DOe mother is like a mother bird...The mother kicks them out of the nest. Or so i have heard from the scientific community.

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

THats buck Dispersion. i dont think it applies to doe dispersion

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

GIVE IT UP! YOU LOSE!

RE: kill all deer in PA
 

Someone watched the latest episode of Deer and Deer Hunting TV and is now an expert. That's funny. He got his information from the last show or the one before last I have them taped I'll have to look at them. Charles Alsheimer was talking about the very issue, but this guy has taken it a bit out of context to fit his arguement.