cardeer

2pts on one side spike on other side = 3pts ? Illegal
Fork buck=4 pt ? Illegal

3pt on one side only ,nothing on other side? Legal

If thats the case then you can shoot a 3pt but not a 4 pt,so your still shooting a smaller buck then you really could,what the heck is with that?

OR Do I not understand and there must be 3 pts on both sides which would be a 6 pt? + legal

And I seen nothing about crossbows? Yea or nea?

PABowhntr

CD,

Yes, you have it right. A "3 point on one side" buck would actually be classified as a 6 pointer. If one side of the antlers fell off then it doesn't change anything...the buck still, "probably" would have been at least a 5 pointer, if not a 6, provided that the other antler hadn't fallen off.

I believe that they are saying that if something like this were to happen then it would be such a small percentage of the overall bucks out there that they aren't going to change the regulation around to compensate for it.

buckhunter3

Cardeer,I think they had better get alot of information both on the news and papers explaining what a legal buck will be and where before the next hunting season.In my county it will be at least 4Pts on one side.
The way I look at it if it is a full racked buck it will be an 8Pt buck or better that I or my son will have to go after this year.And you had better see every point or be fined.What if the brow tines are broken off less then an inch. Illegle.My family always drives deer most shots are moving fast or running how am I going to even with a scope tell that the buck has 4pt on one side.I thought the PGC wanted to keep youths interested in hunting.I now tell my son next year you have to shoot a buck that is at least an 8Pt.He did shoot one this year his first one and only one between 8 of us but also knows it doesn't happen every day.
If they want bigger bucks in Pa why would they make 8Pt. bucks or better the only deer legal to shoot.I thought Gary Alt said these are the dominant bucks that he wants to breed all these doe that he says are not getting bred.I am opened minded but not stupid.

BTBowhunter

BH3
You pointed out something thatbothers me a good bit. When I attended Alt's meetings he said repeatedly that AR's wouldn't apply to juniors. Its appears that the PGC has forgotten/ignored the kids while saying they want to expand opportunities for them.
I personally like the AR's for adults and think that the example you gave about having to pass on a fast moving deer is a good thing. ( I know we will disagree on that)

I am really dissappointed that they have forgotten the kids and cringe at the thought of being by my son's side and telling him he can't shoot that forkhorn! Maybe that's a bit selfish but what dad isn't selfish when it comes to his kids?

Jason N

Not to step on toes, but the kids need to learn respect for the critters too! Instant gratification isn't the right way to get/keep kids involved in something. Besides, it looks like the trade off is being able to use the general tag for any doe anywhere.

Also, think of it like this...one year the hunting won't be that great. Next year(2003-2004), the hunting should be phanominal. We should have a large population of 2.5 year old bucks sporting 6, 8, & 10pt racks. All of the complaining from the 2002-2003 season will be forgoten. That is if this Deer Management Plan works. Only time will tell.

Keep in mind that these are "PRELIMINARY" regs. Alot changed last year in April.

buckhunter3

BtBowhunter,I actually agree on both points.
I think that if a young hunter today has to wait for an almost trophy deer in Pa like an 8Pt. he will lose interest in a heart beat.
Young people now adays have alot more things to do then when I was growing up.And maybe not all but most if it becomes too difficult right away they will drop it and go to something else.I think the PGC is making a big mistake on this and it will show in the future.As far as shooting at running deer I agree not the % shot most people want.I grew up driving deer with my dad and uncles.I will not say in the beginning I hit every deer I shot at but like trap shooting if I get a deer running across a field at around 100 to 150yds with my 30-06 760 pump 3x9 scope when the drivers hear shots and come out they know a harvested deer is some where.
They usually ask me how many deer there were.I would like to see every young hunter sit and wait on a deer to come by him maybe for a standing shot.This is just the way I have hunted for years with my brothers and nephews now and we have been successful with it.

BTBowhunter

BH3
I think very few hunters have the skill you have at running deer. For every guy that can hit that deer I bet there a hundred that will miss/wound. I would feel confident at 100-150 yds as well if the shot was unobstructed but I don't think most guys are capable of a shot like that. JMHO!

Jason, you obviously don't have kids and can't understand my point. My kid will sit for hours and not complain but I think he is an exceptional 12 year old. Our sport desperately needs more youth involved and ANY measure to encourage them is worthwhile. I also think the overall effect on the herd from this small group would have an insignificant biological impact. As for the new doe reg for the kids, I think it's a positive but would still rather see the kids excluded from AR's as well.

Rob/PA Bowyer

BTB, I shot my first buck at age 14, in fact I didn't see a buck until that age and I don't have a problem with a youngster learning the hard way and becoming experienced with each passing season. One of the reasons I believe I didn't see a buck was they all get shot too young. Yes my first was a 3 point but I'd been okay with waiting a year or two to take a more mature animal and that is all it's going to take. I know a guy in his 50's and has taken only one buck to date and it was a spike a few years ago and he's hunted every year since he was 12. The spike would have been illegal in a AR enviroment but had hunters been passing these animals starting years and years ago, that same 50 something would probably taken more bucks to date. I firmly believe that the buck population will grow and quality animals are going to be the result but this will only be a reality if respondsible hunters do their part to ensure the results. Archery hunters do it now, we pass buck after buck waiting for a quality animal. It's nothing new to me and I'm seeing the results. I can't believe all the flack around this AR, it's nothing new. It's not something Alt pulled out of a hat. What do we think Illinios, Texas and most big buck states have been doing all along. I bet those states new 12 year old hunters don't have to shoot spikes and forkhorns cause that big 8 or better is traveling the same circle. I am leary of some of the downfall to quality bucks in a state, like land leases but who can blame the landowners. If you needed the money would you pass up the offers...that's a catch 22 for most. Putting aside a few youngsters that might not get a buck the first year out, they stand a greater chance the next year and even more the year following at an exceptional animal and all new hunters from that day forth will too. This is only going to effect the first year 12 year olds, one more year won't hurt anyone....cut their teeth on a mature doe. I know I did.

yote runner

i've been following this discussion for a while and i really can't agree with you on this bowyer fella... i think it's rather insulting that you call hunters who question a regulation as irresponsible- is it really responsible that hunters are forced not to shoot a buck for the freezer, because it has a small rack?? has penn's deer health quality really diminished because of liberalized shooting of bucks?? another thing- illinois doesn't practice qdm and texas is an exception to the rule- most public land down there doesn't produce premier whitetails like you think they may...

BTBowhunter

Rob, you've got some good points. Had a talk with my 12 year old and he's happy to wait for a a legal rack. I do support AR's and have all along I was just taken back a bit when Alt more or less promised not to restrict the kids at all. I realize he doesn't make the final decision though. The bottom line is, if my kid is ok with it, I probably overreacted.

Yote Runner, I've hunted Illinois for 5 years and they do practice GDM. The unique thing is that they do it voluntarily out there and it has worked well.

Finally, Lochorns, you have ranted rabidly against AR for weeks. Now it's a good idea?
I don't think you really believe in anything except starting fires among hunters and fanning the flames. Something PETA and Greenpeace must really love.