Property owners and PGC laws collide
02-13-2007 | 03:23 PM
#11
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
Owning property gives me constitutional rights.
That thing about the PGC has been slashed, sliced, diced and stewed so many times and proven that the Gestapo accusations are usually made totally out of context.
I'm not that up on the wording and regulations concerning serach and seizure but no one to date, in thesedebates,has shown any proof of such alledged freedoms and abuses of search and seizure.
02-13-2007 | 03:25 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
ORIGINAL: AJ52
I find it very odd that the PGC has the right to search,tresspass etc....without reason or warrant.Is that what the code states??
PGC claims they have the right to search, tresspass violate your constitutional rights without reason or a warrant.
But this was about a debate on choice of weapons,or clothing and other small laws that prohibit land owners from use. If it causes no problem to any other hunter, Then why is this to be enforced on to land owners also.
We should have some priviledges just for owning our property. We are hunting on our property and there for, not hunting public. Which means more wildlife for those that hunt public properties. But, How many complain about land owners hunting public property when they have their own land. We should have more freedom of choice on our own land.
02-13-2007 | 03:31 PM
#13
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
I think the "trepass" thing concerns some folks. Don't quote me on this but I believe PGC can go onto private, even posted, property if they merely suspect a violation. It could even be that a search warrant is not needed to investigate probable cause.
Like I said, I don't know the specifics but some have rather convincingly recounted such things.
It doesn't take much to imagine a private landowner could post his land, bait game, take game out of season, exceed bag limits and if law enforcement personnel were prevented form going on his land, he'd never get prosecuted. Unless, of course, somoeone ratted him or he bragged etc.
Kind of like a state cop. They don't need to stay out of your driveway if they are following up on a report or even have questions. If they pull you over, ore even stop while you are parked, I think they they can search your car without a warrant on probable cause.
Send in the legal beagles.
Like I said, I don't know the specifics but some have rather convincingly recounted such things.
It doesn't take much to imagine a private landowner could post his land, bait game, take game out of season, exceed bag limits and if law enforcement personnel were prevented form going on his land, he'd never get prosecuted. Unless, of course, somoeone ratted him or he bragged etc.
Kind of like a state cop. They don't need to stay out of your driveway if they are following up on a report or even have questions. If they pull you over, ore even stop while you are parked, I think they they can search your car without a warrant on probable cause.
Send in the legal beagles.
02-13-2007 | 03:31 PM
#14
Typical Buck
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 522
Likes: 0
From: PA
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
I have seen it stated by those who would know, that Wildlife Conservation Officers are bound by the same constitutionalrestrictions as all other law enforcement officers are, when it comes to probable cause, searches,etc. The myth has existed for years here, that somehow WCOs have some sort of special powers beyond those of thepolice.
One point of contention is that WCOs can stop you while afield, to check for properlicense, equipment and daily bag limit infractions, while the police are not supposed to be able to detain anyone without good reason (probable cause).
No idea why someone would think they wouldn't have to abide by game regs just because it's their property? We ain't allowed to do anything else on our own property, that's against thelaw.
One point of contention is that WCOs can stop you while afield, to check for properlicense, equipment and daily bag limit infractions, while the police are not supposed to be able to detain anyone without good reason (probable cause).
No idea why someone would think they wouldn't have to abide by game regs just because it's their property? We ain't allowed to do anything else on our own property, that's against thelaw.
02-13-2007 | 03:34 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 0
From: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
[quote]The same is with camoflage clothing. it is the land owners choice.[quote]
Why should land owners be exempt from Hunter Safety laws.
Why should land owners be exempt from Hunter Safety laws.
02-13-2007 | 03:43 PM
#16
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
ORIGINAL: NorthPA
George, you left out a word. Maybe you didn't notice. "extra."
That thing about the PGC has been slashed, sliced, diced and stewed so many times and proven that the Gestapo accusations are usually made totally out of context.
I'm not that up on the wording and regulations concerning serach and seizure but no one to date, in thesedebates,has shown any proof of such alledged freedoms and abuses of search and seizure.
Owning property gives me constitutional rights.
That thing about the PGC has been slashed, sliced, diced and stewed so many times and proven that the Gestapo accusations are usually made totally out of context.
I'm not that up on the wording and regulations concerning serach and seizure but no one to date, in thesedebates,has shown any proof of such alledged freedoms and abuses of search and seizure.
But the PGC thinks they have the extra rights above the constitution.
And if you look thru the web, You can see where many have violated the constitution. Heres a question for you?
Do you believe that PGC has the right to tresspass upon someones property that is posted or to search someones vehicle without a warrant without cause. What would you do if someone refused to let you proceed to do so without a warrant?
But I still want to stay on topic here and address this also.
02-13-2007 | 03:46 PM
#17
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
[quote]ORIGINAL: AJ52
[quote]The same is with camoflage clothing. it is the land owners choice.
Why should land owners be exempt from Hunter Safety laws.
It's just the choice of the land owner. What safety concern if your land is posted and no one else hunts it? Or if your in a stand, Remove your colors. I don't see a safety issue there. It's all about choice AJ and to decide for ones self.
[quote]The same is with camoflage clothing. it is the land owners choice.
Why should land owners be exempt from Hunter Safety laws.
02-13-2007 | 03:48 PM
#18
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
ORIGINAL: NorthPA
I think the "trepass" thing concerns some folks. Don't quote me on this but I believe PGC can go onto private, even posted, property if they merely suspect a violation. It could even be that a search warrant is not needed to investigate probable cause.
Like I said, I don't know the specifics but some have rather convincingly recounted such things.
It doesn't take much to imagine a private landowner could post his land, bait game, take game out of season, exceed bag limits and if law enforcement personnel were prevented form going on his land, he'd never get prosecuted. Unless, of course, somoeone ratted him or he bragged etc.
Kind of like a state cop. They don't need to stay out of your driveway if they are following up on a report or even have questions. If they pull you over, ore even stop while you are parked, I think they they can search your car without a warrant on probable cause.
Send in the legal beagles.
I think the "trepass" thing concerns some folks. Don't quote me on this but I believe PGC can go onto private, even posted, property if they merely suspect a violation. It could even be that a search warrant is not needed to investigate probable cause.
Like I said, I don't know the specifics but some have rather convincingly recounted such things.
It doesn't take much to imagine a private landowner could post his land, bait game, take game out of season, exceed bag limits and if law enforcement personnel were prevented form going on his land, he'd never get prosecuted. Unless, of course, somoeone ratted him or he bragged etc.
Kind of like a state cop. They don't need to stay out of your driveway if they are following up on a report or even have questions. If they pull you over, ore even stop while you are parked, I think they they can search your car without a warrant on probable cause.
Send in the legal beagles.
02-13-2007 | 03:59 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 0
From: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
You made a claim in affect that states the PGC may enter your land without probable cause.That makes no sense.Your Topic is "Property owners and PGC laws collide".Show us the collision by posting the code that conflits with your perception of State Regs.
What does make sense if hunting on a WMA you can be stopped while walking,driving etc....On private property there must be probable cause to enter. Very similar laws apply to fishing and being stopped by any number of law enforcement agencys,form F&W,marine police,Coast Gaurd etc....
If you have your own private pond/lake you are still subject to some state regs.
Now - if your saying the PGC has all these rights to enter your property you need to post the reg/code.I'm puzzled as to how PA/PGC could be violating or negating all these rights under the U.S. constitution.
What does make sense if hunting on a WMA you can be stopped while walking,driving etc....On private property there must be probable cause to enter. Very similar laws apply to fishing and being stopped by any number of law enforcement agencys,form F&W,marine police,Coast Gaurd etc....
If you have your own private pond/lake you are still subject to some state regs.
Now - if your saying the PGC has all these rights to enter your property you need to post the reg/code.I'm puzzled as to how PA/PGC could be violating or negating all these rights under the U.S. constitution.
02-13-2007 | 04:06 PM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,208
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
ORIGINAL: georgepoker
Don't you think that is being hypocritacle to? Come on. They don't have to obey the constitution but we have to obey their laws on our property. Double standard and very hypocrit. This isn't about hunting without tags or poaching. This was about should we have to use the weapons they say and have to wear the colors they say on our own property. Can we not chose different. What harm does it do?
ORIGINAL: rybohunter
because even though you may own the land you don't own the animals. SO you have to follow the rules for killing those animals like everyone else.
because even though you may own the land you don't own the animals. SO you have to follow the rules for killing those animals like everyone else.