RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

:D
You are just too funny Sylvan.
You do, of course, know that I realize you are making a play on words and that it is generally stated that we live in a democracy. To be absolutely correct in terminology we do exist in what is termed a Democratic Republic.
Regardless, PA is also a commonwealth but only people desperate to make a point go around correcting those who say it isa state --- semantics!

Actually, I do agree with your "rule of law" assertion and to nit pick that I intended anything else is pathetic.
How does "rule of law" take root? It is done by electing, through majority, those majority-elected leaders construct legislation and vote, by majority, into law, or in court appontments, they make appointments and those appointed officials are voted on by a majority, they then review law and vote, by majority, to arrive at a decision.
The concensus of law if for "all" citizens -- not a special few.


Much as you try to weasel some constitutional exception to the fact that governing in our society is designed to be fair and equal, you can't do it.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Actually NorthPA, you were the one who came on here and ridiculed others for being ignorant and in need of a hs civics class. I believe you even made fun of spelling. Talk about "pathetic". I simply pointed out the amusing ironythat you were the one who didn't have the facts right. Looks like you can dish it out but can't take it even a little bit. Boy, talk about mister thin skin!

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Actually it is a joke that goes back to Mountain Lions in Pa between Sylvan and I, so but out. It's every bit on topic as your last post calling out a Moderator.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

No thin skin here but plenty of laughter.

I hate going out to plow snow and miss the remainder of, "we ain't a democracy" class, butI think I may even take my tractor outon the township road without a registration.

Oh, by the way, in your "selective" comments, did you notice my comment about "my" spelling?

Ciao.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

But what you fail to realize is that the constitution is above any state made law. And property owners do have more rights of what they do on their property than someone who doesn't own property. I got a license and my vehicle regerstration and I am still driving 100mph on my property. but it's against the law to do so on public roads. I got a hunting license and hunt with a semi and camo on.
I do not have to follow all the laws of the PGC that set fourth for everyone.
The same asmy drivers license. On my property I do not have to obey by the state laws. I can drive wreckless and have races with friends and do burnouts if I want. yet I still have a license.

If I have a hunting license my property still gives me more rights and freedom of choice than I would on SGL. What it comes down to is what do the PGC thinks they own. They do not own me or my land and do not own the animals nor do they govern what I choose to wear or use for a fiream on my property.

Is it that hard for them or anyone to realize that we do have our own rights and choices when it comes to our property.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

I suggest financing your legal battle with moonshine money. Heck, why stop there? Grow some pot. (seeings how you can do as you please on your own property)
Game is regulated and taking of game is regulated. I think you must know your argument is not even close to being valid.
You "do not" own the game. If you could establish ownership you would be responsible for whatever they do once leaving your property.
Good luck with the Anarchism approach. And, of course, you are so sure of yourself that you wouldn't dream of hiding or denying your acts --would you?
Let me know how you make out.
:D

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

You know nothing about the law. It is legal to make moonshine here in Pa.;)

I am not worried about it. Serously, No I wouldn't hide my acts and I would not brag about them either. I am protected by the constitution and know for a fact these would get thrown out of court if my rights as a land owner was violated without due process. Would you like to see examples of these thrown out of court?

No one is above the laws of the constitution. My freedoms and rights as a property owner are protected from any law agency without due process.And hearsay is not considered reliable source to violates someones rights without a warrant. Freedom of choice on ones property is protected under the constitution also. But I am done talking to someone who should never be a PGC officer. Someone who is arrogant as you and your words should never be given any power of law inforcement. You would violate human rights just to show of power. Hope you don't ever run into the wrong person with that attitudewith a badge.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Game animals are not your property. If you want to hunt any way you want you can by simply putting up a fence and stocking your own game and have at it. Until then, the game laws need to be followed.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Where did I ever say they was mine? Who said they was mine? I said who owns the animals. I Don't nor does the PGC. This wasn't about animals. This was about owners rights and items of use or not used on ones own property. northpa is twisting and making fasle accusations again. I never said they was my animals. I said the property was mine and I have control on what I want to use as choice to hunt.;)

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Hummmmm - guess we all just got a lesson in Jurisprudence.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

show me.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

HUH?
Don't know who you are talking to there Gerorge. If it's me please tell "my agency" to send a paycheck. :eek:

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Hunting is a privledge in Pa and you have to abide by the laws if you want to play.Hhow hard is that to understand.Murder is illegal.You can't just kill someone because you're on your own property.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

It is now obvious george that your last line I quoted there is all your up to. Stirring the pot.

You said in the opening of your post that you wanted to know how laws applied to land owners then you asked how others feel about the laws. Ever since you've been trying to convince us that its OK to break laws, because you own land. Go ahead break any law you want, get a lawyer to fight the constitutionality of the laws, whatever, but don't ask for opinions then refuse to acknowledge anyones posts as valid. You are going to disagree regardless, that is now plain to see.

Why everyone has to blame the PGC on every issue under the sun is beyond me. The legislature gave them the authorities they have why isn't anyone bashing them? They do their jobs just like you and I go to work everyday. They are ordinary people just like we are trying their best to perform a job. Give them a break already. The PGC isn't to blame for everything going on in Pa. like some on this Northeast forum would have us believe. Uneducatedhunters are more of a problem in Pa than the PGC could ever be.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Very well said.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Doug, Lay off the sugar smacks.

Compare oranges to a brick. Killing someone compared to useing what one wants to hunt with on his own property. We land owners do not have to hunt or use the same guidelines as public land hunters. Akid under 16 doesn't have to have an adult with him to hunt his own land. But on public he does. So don't tell me all the laws are the same for property owners as general public they are not. So we do have our own extra rights and what is permissable on our own property. And what we wear and use is our choice also. Now if we don't have extra rights as a land owner explain this under 16 law and property owners? And it goes beyond that law also. I can shoot a deer outside my truck window on my property or shoot it from the upstairs window of my house. These are property owners rights. So don't tell me we have to apply by the same laws.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Wipe the brown off your nose there tryk

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Oh that's mature of you... But I guess I'd expect that from you considering the pattern your posts have taken. Your acting like a 12 year old who can't have his way. BOOO HOOO, I want to hunt with a semi auto and not wear orange, cause I'm a land owner Bla Bla Bla.... Let me ask you! Why do you think your special and deserve to be treated differently than anyone else?

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Should you be allowed to use a .50 cal for your deer hunting? After all it is adequate!

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Oh well George, looks like you'll have to doa Ruby Ridge style.

Side note, I am not able to reply to pm's. I've turned off pop up blocker but still can't reply.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Under 16 do not have to be with an adult. If there is no special rights to property owners, Why is this allowed? We do have extra rights that exempt us from the laws of the ordinary.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Didnt that courtcase that someone sued the g/c say something like you g/c dont own the deer just curious?[8D]

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

NO NO NO saw it happen down in Greene Co.. I know the land owner in question of this. The guys property is posted very well every 10 ft. Was coming out on his quad or whatever they call them 4 wheel things. Guy summoned him over and wanted to look at his rifle w.c.o. checked his rifle no bullets in rifle. So the owner says to w.c.o. what are you doing and w.c.o. says this an that. Well owner says your on private property my property get the xxxx off of it w.c.o. left his property.Got another one here we built a gun range on this person,s land in Butler it,s a farm private property and signs up and the whole works. Well one day the owner goe,s off to work the owners sister who lives next door heard some shooting from the area of the range. She checks her brothers driveway his car is gone and none of our cars are there. She goes up to the range there,s a state trooper sighting in his deer rifle in uniform an car the whole 9 yd,s. Well she ask this smokey what are you doing he says sightin in his gun and she says your on private property and this is a private range and she was gonna report him. He left and pretty sure she put a complaint in. So these guys in uniform think their gods but they also are not above the law they should practice what they preach.[:@]

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

You said why wouldnt you want to wear orange. Why is it the late muzzleloader season you arent required to wear blaze orange if your muzzleloading huntingDoesnt the late small game season open up the same time as muzzleloader does think about that one:)

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Yeah, something about a uniform makes a person really bad. People who wear jeans are never bad boys or girls.
It's simply logical, for those with an exceptionally high degree of intelligence --- if theywear a uniform they are liars, cheats and jack-booted thugs.
And just think, people who see things that way just might grow up and be responsible for making decisions some day............[:o]

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

There are a few cases where some landowners, mostly farmers, do have some exceptions from some sections of the Game and Wildlife Code. The cases that George has been talking about though are not among those exceptions to the law.

People on their own property still have to use legal firearms, wear the required amount of protective orange clothing and be properly accompanied, as a junior hunter, while hunting. Landowners can carry or wear what ever they want, as long as it is legal under the Crimes Code, while walking on their property and not hunting though. But, if they make any attempt to harvest anything or do anything that would be construed, by the court, as hunting while they are on their walk around they are just as subject to being charged as any other hunter, on private land or not.

In this Commonwealth, and generally throughout this entire country, the State Constitutions established a long time ago that all of the wildlife belongs to all of the people, regardless who owns the land, and that all laws apply, on all lands, regardless of ownership. They did that because they had seen the problems that resulted when the Dukes, Earls and Lords not only own the land but also the wildlife on the land. They didn’t want those problems replicated here in this country so they addressed those every issues in the State Constitution.

The Game Law does not allow Conservation Officers to violate the United States or the Pennsylvania Constitution. All law enforcement officers in this state are bound by the same Constitutional restrictions and the way those constitutional amendments are viewed and ruled upon by the courts. The High Courts of this Commonwealth, and our Nation, rule on the Constitutional issues of arrests on a daily bases. Sometimes those courts even overturning previous decisions, based on the premises of the wording in the Constitution. One of those premises is that the Constitution does not say there will be no searches; it only protects people and places from “unreasonable searches” and intrusions by their Government. It is the definition of what is reasonable or unreasonable in a warrant less search that is under constant review by the courts.

The law enforcement officers are all bound by those court opinions that get ruled on, handed down, frequently amended, overruled and subject to be changed that guide the limits on what is allowed as far as vehicle stops or warrant less searches and to what extent any law enforcement officer in this state can enter onto another person’s property while in the performance of their duties. Different laws within the Commonwealth, as established by the State Legislature, have different wording that set down what the performance of those duties might be for the various Law Enforcement Agencies. That in turn then becomes part of what the courts rule on when determining what is reasonable or unreasonable when it comes to stops, searches or even reasonable intrusions of persons, vehicles or the various properties of people.

The “Open Fields Doctrine” as ruled on the courts of this Nation, and this Commonwealth, still allow any Law Enforcement Officer to enter onto private property, within some legal restrictions concerning buildings and other areas around those buildings, when that Officer is within their legal Legislative authority and mandates.

R.S. Bodenhorn

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

You are wrong RSB. A lawyer friend of my dad has said. That officers are permited to "INSPECT". This means to look at anything that is visable to the eye without violating ones rights. This does not give officers permision to search person, places, or things without a warrant.Nor does it permit them the right to get into vehicles or trunks to do searches without a warrant.Use the word "INSPECT" There is a big difference between them two words.

The constitution also permits me to shoot rodents with any type of weapon one chooses.
We got a squirrel problem and they keep knawing at our house and damageing it trying to get in. I am allowed to hunt this rodents on my property anyway I choose to rid me of their destruction. Got predators trying to kill our pets. I am permitted to hunt and destroy them how I want on our property. I can shoot deer in our gardens and shoot them with what I want. There are many loopholes that permit me to wear and use what I want to eliminate these problems. And I can actually do this without a license also. This falls under the rights to protect my property andposessions. And my dads lawyer friend says he has read many of cases and like 90% of the time it is legal to do the abovebut local magistrates rules against the deffendants and they give in and plead guilty. But he says that 99% of the people who takes it to a higher court gets it reversed in favor of the defendant because of the constitution over ridesthe state or federal law when it comes to illegal searches and tresspassing and the right to protects ones own property and posessions.

But remember it is "INSPECT" and not search that is permitted by officers.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

It's scary to think there are people like you released from the institution.

Do you really not think everyone can see that there are a couple of you who are doing a 7th grade social project?

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

You go to insults when you have nothing to comment and know that this lawyer is correct. I guess I can put you in the communist group if you don't believe in or stand up and support the constitution. Even if some things are not fair. Our constitution should not be disreguarded even for an evil crime. It is what keeps america free and proud. Our individual rights are more important than any crime commited. If you don't believe in that or support that. I advise you to move to china. Have a good trip.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

Wrong again Robert. I don't own property in Pa, don't hunt private property in Pa and carefully observe all laws and regulations when I'm hunting in Pa. You wouldn't happen to have a link for that alledged thread would you? If not, then trying to find it might be a good idea and give you something to do besides hurling insults at the posters of this board. Almost appears that you are developing some sort of complex about Crazyhorse, this Manyspurs fellow and me.:eek: Also I'd like to say thanks for sending that link to the HPA website. Very entertaining.

Now go away. Your ignorance brings this board down.

RE: Property owners and PGC laws collide
 

This topic has obviously self destructed.