RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

Incidentally, the 48 hours is not a request. it is the LAW.

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/license/rptharvest.html

So, what you stated does indeed underscore the confusion, does it not? I mean, you say, "The 48 hour thing to me is more of a request and not a "law" - seeing how they can't really enforce it. As long as they get an accurate reportDEC will be happy. The 48 hour just helps those get it reported quickly before they forget, which we all can do."

We have many laws which are not enforced, doesn't make them any less laws. And, yes, this one they can enforce, through the DECALS database, especially on those tags which were found to be not reported during processor and taxidermist surveys, by flagging in the DECALS db and denying sale of license the following year. This one is readily enforceable, but the will to enforce is not there.

Also, to everyone who may click this link, it does go into detail as to what info they will request from your report, and in terms of deer harvest reporting, they inform us that they want :

For all species
[ul][*]Either your Backtag Number or the Document Number (DOC#) which appears on the report tag or carcass tag[*]Taker's name and date of birth[*]County and Town of kill[*]WMU of take[*]Month and day of kill [/ul]
Additional information for individual Species:
Deer:
[ul][*]Implement used in hunt (bow, muzzleloader, rifle/shotgun, handgun)[*]Season during which deer was taken (regular, archery, muzzleloading)[*]Sex of deer (male, female, unknown) [/ul]
So, again, back to the AR debate, the State is in no position to effectively manage the herds based on the higher complexity of the information demands. Don't have the info, and we should be addressing this first, before pushing for a higher AR or QDM rules.

RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

like I said, to me it is more of a request, hence the "law" in quotes. I know it's a law, but and unenforceable law is meaningless. The DEC doesn't plan on enforcing it, they want the law to show the importance of reporting. so when someone does report late the reporting police aren't coming to cuff 'n' stuff that tardy hunter. what would teh point be.

RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

I totally agree doughboy, it's just laziness. They just don't want to be inconvenienced forthe few minutes it takes. Too complicated etc are just excuses. I don't buy the too old excuse either. For heavens sake, there's nothing new about these automated phone systems and if you're so senile you can't negotiate such a simple process then maybe you shouldn't be running around with a firearm in your hands. Come on guys, drop the excuses and get er done!

RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

I don't know. Seems to me some reporting options and dropping the 48 hours mandatory reporting language, then enforcing a mandatory end of season report in total would go a long way to eliminating the "excuses". After all, it is these "excuses" which are used by the DEC as justification to not enforce the mandatory reporting in the first place.

Besides, if we are to believe that game harvest reporting compliancy on deer harvest was running at 95% through the mail in your report system, something obviously has changed, which is the new phone in system and the reprt within 48 hours.

Yes, its part laziness, and its also part stubbornness, and also part uncertainty. Let's face it, we understand the DEC isn't enforcing the 48 hour rule. Heck, they're not enforcing mandatory reporting in TOTAL. The only reporting that is being somewhat effectively enforced is the waterfowl/ migratory game birds reporting, through requiring a HIP number before hunting ducks, geese, woodcock, etc. And that one is being enforced when licenses are inspected (if they happen to inspect your license during a hunt). A friend of mine a couple years ago got a ticket for not having the HIP number, and he was duck hunting. He claimed ignorance, and won a $50.00 (big whoop) fine for that ignorance. He then belly-ached to me about that, and did I know about that (HIP Number requirement). I said, yes, I did know about it. Congratulations on your prize.

But in order for anyone to know that the 48 hours requirement is not being enforced, one would have to either ask the DEC, or have attended some of the public hearings and heard the answer to the questions when reporting compliancy was discussed. How many hunters stay educated on the latest happenings? 1%? 5%? The majority don't, andare not aware of this, IMHO.

The HIP program is effective, because EVERYONE who desires to hunt waterfowl and other migratory game birds must register. During the registration process, you answer general questions pertaining to last year's success. I like it. You want to hunt deer next season? Report your harvest at the end of extended big game season.

We also have this problem with reporting wild turkey harvest. So much so the DEC has resorted to basically bribery to get hunters to report. The three year wild turkey study being conducted in NY, PA and OH, to determine longevity and whatnot of bearded turkey is now in its second year, and trapping, banding and immediate release of turkey is now resuming for year two. Connie Adams, Region 9 Small Game Biologist presented this new cooperative study to the Erie County Federation Last winter, and mentioned that if a hunter reports a banded bird, one in two also carry a cash reward! SHe wouldn't say how much cash, but.... ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Kind of a similar scenario with the DECtagged fish. You could get a $50.00 if you catch a DEC tagged fish and call in the number.

RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

95%? Are you sure about that number? I of course have no way of knowing what it was but 95% is pretty hard to believe.

RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

This was the compliancy number reported to the hunters gathered during the public meetings held by the DEC in February 2005. Retired Sr Big Game Wildlife Biologist Jim Snyder reported this as such, and this is in writing in the power point presentation they presented to the unruly crowd. I say unruly, because when Snyder got up to speak, some in the back yelled out, (and this ain't no lie) "Get a rope!".... "String him up!"

Remember, this meeting was held in 2005, 3 years removed from DECALS implementation. Although I am skeptical about numbers the DEC presents, I am forced to consider the numbers as valid.

RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

Here's a quick bottom line after debating and reading all of these posts.

Many hunters are in favor of some sort of "antler Restrictions" on bucks harvested where they hunt. I for one am one of those hunters. Most on this thread are in favor.

Some say hunting clubs and whole counties are against AR and have already voted it down or would. I must say to those people that believe this that the "AR" people's numbers are growing and have grown dramatically for the past 5 years. I cannot believe the amount of hunters in just my area that would abide in restrictions and are for some sort of change. They are fed up wit the current system. My Fish and Game club has just voted on this issue. We had over 100 members who were present at the meetingvote a majority favor in supporting Antler Restrictions in our county. We are not the only doing so. 2 other clubs said they know they would endorse this and do the same.

Like in Ohio, NY state can be alittle more accountable to "true" deer harvest tallies. DEC still doesn't have a clue on how many deer are harvested yearly. Supposively they have a formula to calculate thiswhich my DEC Conservation Officer friend (who is a well-educated advid deer hunter) says is a joke! They make me laugh with their mathmatics.

More game wardens and enforcement are needed.

RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

Well, that's all good. How about your County Federation? Where do the Federated Clubs stand? AGain, the county Federations in Region 8 and 9 that have taken an official position on AR/ QDM regulations have 100% voted to oppose any increase in AR for statewide implementation. Since I am heavily involved in the legislative process, I can speak to this with certainty and fact, rather than supposition.

If you want an opinion to count more than the reality, fine. I assert the majority of sportsmen in NYS are opposed to any increased regualtions by virtue of a web poll I conducted a few months back. With over 600 respondents (you can only vote once per IP address), over 70% of the voters stated that increased AR should be left up to the hunter, not regulated.

But you want a change, for whatever reason, yet you freely admit that the information collection and reporting system currently used by the DEC is "a joke". Then, out of the other side of your mouth, you say an increased AR will work? Smoke another one. If you admit we cannot even determine how many deer intotal have been harvested, let alone how many are actually still on hoof, what would possess you to support any change in management without first addressing reporting and information collection by the agency whose State Charter grants them full authority and responsibility for management of the game animals in NYS?

Do you believe that an AR law is some magical abracadabra that will suddenly correct all the woes we have? Do you think that passage of an increased AR will come complete with a deer voodoo doll that will make everything suddenly good?

Your statement, albeit your opinion and you're entitled to it, is quite frankly irresponsible in the face of the facts you yourself have stated concerning information we DO NOT HAVE. Your efforts will be better served in paving the roads to get to a stronger, better deer management process and methodology, rather than the blind faith you seem to exhibit based on watching TV shows of high fenced hunts and monster bucks, which are primarily funded by food plot makers and hunting gear sellers.

You've been sold a bill of goods, and have your priorities completely out of whack. Your continual contradictions bear this out, and due to this, you have no credibility.

Not to mention that nothing in the AR proposals addresses habitat and quality of food, and how we are to maintain habitat and improve food quality, especially on public lands. WIthout this component, you have a snowballs chance of actual success in the wild, too. Everything starts from the ground up. Without water and sunlight, you have no food. Without food, you have no deer, or very small deer at best. Do these concepts echo with you? Or is your knowledge solely based on what you see on Bill Jordan's Real Tree Outdoors?

RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

Doctori- You make me laugh with your over confidence in your own knowledge. Like myself, you have an opinion but I think you are over looking the amount of dedicated outdoorsman that are on board with the AR idea.Our County Federation would endorse this and this topic has been already been discussed.

RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
 

Its not over confidence. I've been at this a long time.

How do you reconcile moving on a more complex deer management strategy without first having the information collection being implemented?

How do you reconcile moving from population control to herd structure manipluation without also addressing habitat quality?

How do you enforce the AR with insufficient law enforcement?

Are you even aware of how many ECOs would be needed, per Region, and a relative cost of this?

Do you even understand the process involved in getting NYS (not the DEC, isn't their call) to authorize additional personnel to be hired?

You have some glaring holes in your opinion, which is becoming evident that it is being formed by TV shows.