germain

I'm like say 50/50 on the whole deer management issue but I also like to keep an open mind.I'm trying to digest what the PGC and DCNR are telling us but what my own eyes have seen in over 30 years of hunting tells me different in some cases.Be that as it may,does it bother anybody that greenpeace is involved with forest certification?Or does it bother anybody that audabon was involved in preventing Michigan from having a dove hunting season?These two groups are behind the scenes in deer management on DCNR lands.

DougE

No more than the usp filing a ridiculous lawsuit against the PGC.No more than the legistatures failing to grant the PGC a much needed lisence increase.

Crazy Horse RVN

You do of course know that Audobon paid a very substantial portion of the Penn State deer study program that the PGC benefited from?

Of coarse you know that "Forest Certification" is a priority concern withthe PGC. That is the reason for Herd Reduction. Habitat being a second consideration.

As for the "rediculous law suit against the USP", well the court didn't think it "rediculous." In fact the court said the suit had "STANDING." That means the court understood it to be a legitimate complaint. That's something some folks of little understanding have difficulty comprehending.

As for the legislature not granting (and still having no intention of granting this year) a license increase, you must remember the legislature (HF&GC) told the agency to pay attention to it's customer, the hunters, and adjust the antlerless allocations to accomidate conditions that vary within PA. That did not occure, and from what I gather from sources close to a couple of Commissioners, there is no intention of doing anything different this year other than "Staying The Course."

Perhaps when some of the policy makers within the agency get pink slips when DCNR takes over things will change for the better. Believe me, that's what will happen when a take-over happens. And to tell you the truth, it can't come too soon. Perhaps then hunters will wake up.

It is my opinion that the USP has more friends in the legislature than does the PGC.

germain

So is that a yes Doug?

Windwalker7

Everyone worries about the DCNR taking over when the PGC goes bankrupt.


To tell you the truth, I can't see the DCNR doing anything different than the PGC isn't already doing to the deer herd.

It would be just more of the same. ( Ignoring hunters and doing what it wants)

archer58

When you speak of Greenpeace and Audabon being behind the sceenes, what do u mean?
Do u mean lobbiests' or do u mean they have a direct hand in deer management?
I do not care for their influence either and I wish they would both fall off the face of the earth w/ PETA, but I do not think they have anymore say in deer management than any other group.
Where did u get ur info?

NorthPA

This is a joke right?
Anyone, in any organization has a right to comment on issues or to fund studies.
Penn State does their studies and reports the results and that is that. They do not ask Audubon or anyone else, what the results should be. They simply tell it like it is.
Forest cert. was done by an independant company, plain and simple.
These groups are hired to do a job because they have the technology, personnel, expertiseand equipment.
This slant is like saying some hunters are good Catholics, therefore the Catholic Church controls hunting.
This is th OJ trial all over. Make accusations, with no substance, to mislead away from the actual findings.

Oh, incidently CH, forest cert. was not done for the PGC, it was done for DCNR. And you seem confused between habitat and good forestry practices that ensure regeneration.

As for thelaw suit, the court did no more than tell USP they arenot denied the right to sue. Although, in the first round they sent them packing and told them to re-word the allegations to establish "standing."
If it is, or is not, ridiculous will be determined in the judgment or lack of it.

If you want to point to the legislators as having some higher degree of knowledge of wildlfie, well good luck. The USP doesn't have friends there, the politicians are simply trying to determine where the most votes are. If you believe any different well welcome to Lala land.

You're rooting for the DCNR to take over!!! Who requested forest certification in the first place? Who is accused of manipulating the PGC to futher reduce deer numbers?

Neville

I view all of the conspiracy theories, who's really runnning the PGC, secret agendas, gross mismanagement, total incompetence issues this way:

If true, and groups or individuals keep year after year raising the same issues then...

1. The Legislature must be part of the conspiracy since they haven't passed any legislation correcting the alleged misconduct orpreventing the hidden agendas from moving forward.

2. The rational and sane members of the Legislature "get it" and while they may pay token lip service to some of it (let's call a hearing to get to the bottom of this!), they simply leave the PGC alone.

Have a great day!

Crazy Horse RVN

"2. The rational and sane members of the Legislature "get it" and while they may pay token lip service to some of it (let's call a hearing to get to the bottom of this!), they simply leave the PGC alone.

Joe, which legislators in your opinion do you consider to be less than "rational and sane members of the legislature?"

Having spoken to some of the members of the House Fish and Game Committee (representing various sections of the state) they simply are not in agreement withyour (above ) statement.

Perhaps at the next meeting of the HF&G Committee and theexecutives of the PGC (in April?) you should make that statement. I'd love to see their reaction.

DougE

The PGC is in charge of managing all wildlife and they have the professionals out in the field that know how to do it..The average hunter wouldn't know the differance between good habitat anmd poor habitat so they should have very little impact on the process.This past year,another disgruntled hunter on huntingnetwas trying to say the habitat was good around here because the deer had plenty of mushrooms and ferns to eat.I'll certainly take that guy's word for it over the professionals.

These anti-hunting organizations that you speak of wanted more deer to be killed so how can you call them ant-hunting?

So you expect guys to get their wages cut because they haven't recieved a lisence increase in over 9 years.Do your wages get cut as the cost of living increases?

Crazyhorse,How is forest certification a priority concern with the PGC?The game lands are not certified.Anyone with more than two working brain cells looks at that lawsuit as ridiculous.Contrary to the USP's belief's,the timber industry is not upset that the deer are pawing the trees with their hooves.There is no evidence that mountain lions are having a huge impact on the deer herd in 2G.It's totaly wrong that oak can't grow out of the reach of deerwith a soil ph between 4-5.the herd is still huntable in the state forests of 2G.I harvest multiple deer in these state forersts every year.The USP's lawsuit is a joke and it's made that organization even more of a laughing stock.Deer pawing up trees.Give me a freakin break.

I would hardly say that those legislatures are in touch with reality.I had the pleasure of hearing them at their save the deer/save our jobs because we voted ourseves a pay raise hearing.Stabackwas unaware of the highly publicized doe mortality study in the Sproul.Beinga concerned legislator on the house game and fisheries committee,you would have thought he'd be better informed.They stacked their house with a bunch of disgruntled speakers,and wouldn't let anyone with an oppsing view speak.They've all been invited to see proof of how the deer damaged the habitat but they all declined.Yeah,they really know what's going on.