Generally speaking, antler restrictions don't work unless you have a plan to protect a buck until it is fully mature. Protecting spikehorns does little but allow the deer to be shot when they are 2 1/2 instead of 1 1/2. I've discussed this topic with our local big game biologist and game warden. The only thing that will result in more mature bucks is to limit the total number of bucks killed and at the same time managing the antlerless deer so that the buck to doe ratio is in balance with the habitat.

Limiting the number of bucks killed can be accomplished several ways, but most hunters don't like those options. You can shorten the rifle season. You can change the season so that the hunting doesn't occur during the rut. You can limit the weapons used (archery, shotgun only, etc. will result in fewer bucks killed than if scoped rifles are used). You can have a permit system (X number of buck tags sold per management unit). These are just some of the ways to improve the age structure of a herd and balance the buck to doe ratio.

Another thing that can be done is to set up "trophy" areas in certainhunting districtsof a state. That way "meat hunters" can still do their thing and those hunters who prefer hunting for mature bucks will have that opportunity. Thedifficult part is getting hunters and the F&G departments to buy into such a plan. There are a few districts in Montana managed for big Mule Deer and for elk. Tags are limited and issued on a draw basis. It's hard to get a tag for these areas, but if you get lucky and draw one you have an opportunity at a very large buck or bull.

With all the deer in Montana, hunters can still only shoot one buck per year. Antlerless tags are issued in each hunting district based on the deer population. Some states allow hunters to shoot several bucks and those states rarely produce large bucks.

There are ways to manage a herd within any state for both quality and quantity, but it takes a lot of PR......getting it done isn't easy.

NJheadhunter, I agree with what you are saying, but I was mainly referring to why VT hunters were seeing more deer. It wasn't just because of protecting the spike horn.

Bigtbird, I get what you are saying too. I do know this: we lease 500 acres in Jersey and ever since us and the other ajoining farms stopped using the brown its down mentality we shoot some really nice deer and the otherfridge hunters still take there meatdoes (before there pregnant of course) We pay the ajoining farm to leave some standing corn, we also have plots. I can honestly say I can't ever justify me ever paying for a trophy hunt out of state. I also eat venison all year round.For the person that just wants to fill a tag to say they got one on opening day, well I have no solution for that.In Jersey you can take as many does as you want. The buck limit depending on how many weapons you hunt is as high as 7. I think that that is just crazy.

New Jersey is far from the typical deer environment. It is basically a suburban/rural setting where there are plenty of areas that don't see much hunting pressure at all. In fact most of the bigger bucks taken there are from high human population areas where access is extremely hard to get. Where there is little hunting pressure, there are more deer and bigger racks as with the points Totanka was making in his post. The Adirondack mountains of New York is an area that doesn't see much hunting pressure, yet there has never been an abundance of deer up there. Some big bucks are taken, but finding one isn't exactly a snap as in many places in New Jersey. Doe permits are never issued there either, so the hunter who just wants meat is pretty much out of luck if antler restrictions were the rule.

I am all for the restrictions.I see it was a way to improve the quality of thedeerage structureand to balance the buck/doe ratio rather than a trophy thing. I understand that VT's harvest before restriction was something like 80% spikes. There is something wrong there. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder, but to most hunters afork or basket 6 is not a trophy.The no spike rule at least allows the buck to gain another year of experience before coming under the gun.

Does are available in somezones for the meat guys too. And one should remember that a 3" min spike was an antler restrictionas well. Ithas just been upgraded.

I remember reading an interview with one of the Benoits. He said they only shot racked bucks in VT as kids, and not spikes because they HAD racked bucks.Just before restrictionmost of the male deer harvest was spikes and forks because thats mostly what was left for hunters to shoot.

I also feel that VT deerhunters (I am notVT resident)are some of the best in the country. They had overharvested the adult buck population, so the little guys need a break. VT hunters are just toogood!

Also, once the age structure and B/D ratio is in line, the AR can be lifted.

My 2 cents worth....

lol......jf5 your check is in the mail.........thanks for the compliments!!

haha

You are welcome. When I have hunted in Montana, they talked allot about the hunters of New England and their goodskills.The reality is that we in NE have to work harder toget a deer than most parts of the country and it shows.VT and Maine guys seems especially skilled.

i hunt mass and we have no restrictions.i pass small bucks like spikes and 4 pts but thats me.other hunters just shoot anything they can.its just your preference.its a good idea to pass smaller deer but in are area if you pass the smaller ones you may not get another chance.

I grew up in Vermont....moved to Montana almost 30 years ago. I can tell you that New England hunters are hands down far better hunters than anyone I've met out here......that's not a slam against hunters who were born and raised in Montana......they just have never had to learn how to really hunt because of the abundance of game. It becomes even more obvious when you start looking at mature whitetail bucks hunters out here have taken who were raised hunting mule deer and elk. Most big whitetails taken my the Montana natives are taken by accident and very few have taken more than a handful of nice whitetails. After saying this I'm sure someone from Montana who was born and raised here is going to read this and take me to task on it, but I've hunted with countless guys who were born and raised here and know of no one who routinely kill big whitetails. I take that back.....I know of a couple of ranchers who allow no one to hunt except family members who have killed several big whitetails over the years.

But getting back to the original topic, making spikehorns illegal in Vermont will do little to improve the deer herd there. Shorten the season to 10 days, move it up so that it starts Nov. 1 (so that it doesn't coincide with the rut), allow a hunter one buck per season (whether it's with a bow, rifle, or muzzleloader), make the legal hunting hours sunrise to sunset (instead of 1/2 hour before and 1/2 hour afterwards) and you'll see an improvement in the deer herd. My two cents worth.

Hi guys. First post, so take it easy on me.......

I grew up in Vermont, my family still lives there, and I still return every year to hunt there. I will actually be flying back tomorrow and hunting first thing Sunday Morning.

My opinion, as a 20+ year hunter in Vermont, is that I don't like this rule at all. Vermont hunters are a different breed. Alot of the state is still the old breed of hunters that hunt for comraderie, fun, and most importantly, food. These hunting restrictions are only needed to increase the size of the antlers, nothing more. If you say it's for the overall health of the heard, I say no way. i have been all over the northeast and through OH, PA, WV, etc., and I can tell you, our deer have always looked great in comparison. The deer are always healthy, strong, etc. And this rule wasn't really made by the hunters. it started with a small group of guys, who travel every year to other southern areas and get bigger bucks, and thought it could work in Vermont. They sent out a survey, and got a decent amount of responses, but nothing more than a fraction of the 80-90,000 that hunt there.

Vermont's heard was weakened in the 80's by massive amounts of doe permits. Before you start accusing me of being one of the old time "Don't shoot does" people, I assure you, I am not. I believe in shooting does, but in a controlled way. The late 80's saw the heard dip. The heard rebounded, and is once again strong. This had nothing to do with the size of the antlers.

As someone said before, it has more to do with weather, etc. The antler restriction may work in Texas, or areas where you don't have to worry about the winters, and you have a huge deer heard, it's great. You have the ability to see 4 or 5 buck a day, and pick and choose which to shoot. In Vermont, the success rate over the years has been about 1 in 7 gets a buck. If i am going to only see a buck to shoot every 7 years, I feel I should have the right to shoot it, wheter or not it's a spike. Also, the funny part is, that spikes only make up part of the 1 1/2 yr olds anyway. Any decent food year will push a yr old deer to a forkie, maybe even a small six.

I have gotten a spike, a 4 point, and a 6 point in my years of hunting there. I valued every single one as a trophy. If you think we need people to pass up smaller bucks, fine, there are those that do it. I just don't think you should tell me or anyone else what a trophy should be.

On a side note, my dad had a legal (in pastyears)spike walk by his stand each of the first 2 mornings......

All this aside, i value everyone's opinion, and glad to see such a discussion. I like the looks of this site, and can't wait to join in more..... Good luck to all this fall.......