RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Once again,I never mentioned a thing about harvesting a deer.A comment was made about hunters hunting for 5 days and not seeing a deer.I hunted all accross public land in 2G last year and saw deer most times out and harvested 3.I also had way more opportunities to shoot deer had I chose.
There were days that I didn't see a thing but it's always been that way.I'm sorry but I don't see horrible hunting conditions in 2G except for areas that have poor habitat.In other words,yes it takes a lousy hunter to hunt for a week and not see a single deer around here.I hear people around here complain all the time and Ican't understand why people claim there's no deer.Twice I've listened to an outfitter complain about no deer.The guy claims that he's had 200 hunters over the past two years and they've killed 2 bucks.I don't even know how that's possible to have a success rate that low.

If people put in a reasonable amount of time scouting and find no sign,why do they hunt there?I guarantee that there's decent hunting not far away if you actually get out and look instaed of depending on the same stand site year after year.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Simple logic tells me that anywhere in the Good Ole USA where there is a significant reduction in the herd the more difficult it becomes to find/see and harvest the remaining deer - DUHhh.

Logic also tells me when the huntin gets tougher(no deer behind every tree) take 2 baths and hunt harder and do it some where else if need be.

Knock Knock Anybody Home

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Can you imagine if a respectable person like a Game Commissioner or Carl Roe said something like that?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

AJ52 Dont let the chicken littles scare you away. Come on up to Pa and hunt. The north central part of the state wouldnt be my first choice but there is plenty of quality huntable ground open to the public in SW PA.There is a lot of private land and some is posted but most is not. Permission is obtainable to anyone willing to make a small effort on much of the posted ground as well. If you want to hunt SW Pa I can hook you up with some very good areas. Oh and doe tags in 2B are very plentiful.

If you want to hunt public ground with plenty of room to roam and a fair to good deer population, the Allegheny National Forest still produces for hunters who put in the time. I can turn you on to some good areas there as well.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

There you go, CH. A chance to drive around the gamelands, listen to PGC propagandaand receive a tour guide packet too.

:)

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: deerfly

No, it just means one of two things. Either you aren't much of a hunter, or you are hunting a place where there aren't any deer which means you don't know squat about scouting. Bathing probably wouldn't help much.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Well Dennis for your personal satisfaction I have taken this tour 2 years ago. These are my stomping grounds and although I am not familiar with all 42,ooo acres I have covered and hunted quite a bit of it.

You should come off your 28 acres and give it a try. In this country you have to hunt for deer. You just can't shoot them off your front porch.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Crazyhorse,Treasure lake is open to hunting for the first time in almost 50 years this year so don't keep throwing that up.The majority of the land where I hunt is either state owned or owned bytimber companies an open to anyone.I have no private honey holes where I have exclusive access.I hunt all over 2G and never have a problem finding deer.Ask Joe Neville to look up the report cards I sent in last year.You'll find 2 successful dmap report cards and one buck harvest all on land open to anyone.Instead ofcrying about it,I go out and find where the deer are.

I worked tirelessly over the past three years trying get get a hunt established in Treasure lake.We were successful in doing so and now 2200 acres is open to hunting that hasn't been open in decades.What have you done lately toensure more land gets opened?By the way,it isn't open just for residents.I could have pushed to make itnoting more than a private hunting club but I wanted to see people from all over get a chance to hunt it.Over the past two months I've recieved phone calls on almost a daily basis about this hunt and I've taken over a dozen complete strangers around showing them where to hang stands.I've alsobeen contaced by other guys(some from this board)and shown them good places to hunt on public land all over this area.Youcan sit behind a computer and type any mistruths you want about me.However,you have no idea the amount of time and effort I put into hunting public land and helping others do the same.SorryI don't see thesame doom and gloom you and your USP buddies see.Bust my balls all you want about Treasure lake but this is the first year myself and many other hunters have a crack at hunting it.2200 acres is more than what alot of state game lands have and I feel pretty good about being instrumental about opening up a piece of property that size.Hopefully if all goes well,alot more of the property will be opened next year and in the future.I have two dmap tags for Treasure lake that will most likely be filled by the first friday of archery season.After that,I'll start working on the rest of my dmaptags in areas of public land that have no deer.

Deerfly,I don't doubt that you're seeing less deer on your 40 acres but it's just that,40 acres.You can't compare that to the rest of the state or the rest of 5C for that matter.You complain about seeing no deer but you readily admitted two years ago that you killed something like 8 deer on that property,6 of which I believe were button bucks.Deer come and go on property that size and having up to 6 hunters will surely keep alot of deer out.Did the PGC let you down or did you let yourself down?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

In my opinion some of the problems stem from groups like the USP spouting ignorance on public hunting forums. Here's an example of what your rantings could have created.

Your USP continually portrays the PGC as a bunch of incompetent whatevers. Maybe we should be looking in the mirror and seeing that maybe the hunters are the ones to blame for most of the problems. Maybe we didn't pay attention for too long and now were panicing a little bit. Everyone running around pointing fingers trying to blame someone else.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Puzzles me why some are obessed with where others hunt, or challenge them to come hunt on public land if they already have a suitable place to hunt deer. Almost sounds like some sorta Socialism at work, or perhaps it's just a manifestation of juvenile jealousy?

If I have a "honey hole" now, pretty sure I didn't haveone back in the 60s and mid-70s, when it was a treat to see a handful of deer after hunting for several days. It's why we often drove several miles to hunt them back then. What a unique concept: Going to where the deer are.

[8D]

BTW Hoss, haven't shot any deer off'n the front porch yet and likely never will. Too many trees out front to see deer crossing the fields and pastures. The woods out back offer far more opportunities, but as is often the case with such things, it's all in the timing.

:)

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

BTB - I would like to come up there some day on a decent hunt.
I know there's some nice deer up there.We have many PA guys come down here to vacation at our beaches in summer.Struck up conversations with many of them to the point that what I read here I add a heavy dose of salt or simply disregard.

Have yet to hear the disaster/conspiracy stories I hear on this forum.
Matter of fact majority say AR is a good thing up there.

I hunted up there in the late 70's as a non res.Deer everwhere !!
My Father inlaw,bro in law and nephew went up there for 2 days about 5 yrs ago and said they would never go back - ever!This was a fantastic private farm chocked full of deer but no discipline with the local yo-yo's in letting certain animals pass.Matter of fact all you had to do was wait for the yo-yo's from very large adjacent WMA push the deer to farm.
Pick a decent deer(Buck or doe and take it).

Now - what I'm saying here doesn't come from the PGC or supposed Crappy data that consumes this forum it comes 1st hand.

This is not to say there aren't some legit problems up there.We have them down here in certain areas as does every state.The days of deer behind every tree are over-done up there and down here and our MD neighbors.

It just aint' like it was 10-15-20 yrs ago.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

The question you need to ask yourself is:"Would you invite someone from out of state to come to Pa and hunt?" My hunting areas have been just about completely shot out. I don't have private ground with deer and I would be embarrassed to invite someone from out of state to hunt here. Your situation might be different. I don't consider just hiking around to be hunting. If you have little or no expectation of seeing anything that is not hunting.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

"Trust me - No one here but a handfull of deadeer,beenthere,deerfly fans believe it either."

Actually "AJ" if you look at the percentage of declining license sales there seem to be a great many people who agree in what Deerflly has posted.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Cleaned up this thread and reopened.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

The big majority of PA hunters don't join the hunting sites and 99% I know are disgusted.The other 1% hunt on posted land.:D

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

update,The August sales are down 9% from last August.To date that would be a %14 decrease in two years.Now they said hunters are buying later then in previous years so those numbers might increase a bit.On the other hand the casual deer or bear hunters are the ones most likely to buy late and also the majority of hunters we will lose.
I'm hoping it picks up because we'll be approching a 15-20% decrease by the time the license increase will be approved.I predict that will be the time we see the biggest decrease in license sales.The problem is till it's all said and done the PGC might be farther in the hole even after the license increase.There's no easy answers here and I hope the bleeding stops soon or we might have Eddie and debernliberal running our show.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Better start looking for your ankles, because once the PGC folds, which is inevitable, all of us will be getting a good dose of what Fast Eddie and The U.N. BiodiversityTreaty is all about.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I agree 100% meadows.If DCNR takes control of our favorite past time we better get some vasoline.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

http://www.paoutdoornews.com/articles/2005/09/09/news/news2.txt

Articles like this are what leads me to believe that the vaseline has been applied. I don't think I'll ever understand how the Dougs, the Hogans and the DennyFs of this world can actually look anybody in the eye and claim they support these fools. They must need friends real bad or something. This is the so called "science" that we are supposed to have complete faith in.:eek:

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I could easily look you in the eye and ask if you have any solid information that supportsyour supposition thatPA didn't have 1.2, 1.4 or 1.6 million deer at the beginning of the herd reduction process, or whatever other figure you might accept as being correct. Big surprise...no one really knew exactly how many deer we had, don't know how many we have now either. Think any other state wildlife agencies know how many deer they have either, or do they also rely on their best estimates?

Can't speak for Hogan or Doug, can speak for myself: No doubt in my mind that any of those figures were not onlypossible, but highly probable. Not that big of deal which, if any, figure was correct....if one accepts that we once had far too many deer in many places.

Number is irrelevant,when observations show that too many deer are harmful to their habitats. Only solution to too many deer, is to have fewer deer, which is precisely what has happened and in many cases, was long overdue to happen. Fool with that.

:)

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I submit that after the poor turnout for the PGC's program to explain the way they calculate the deer figures, and the fact that Carl Roe, Executive Director made the statement that he was "disappointed" at the poor turnout shows that Pennsylvania hunters place little credence in the facts and figures the agency puts forth.

Rosenberry appears to be casting blame very similar to his former superior Gary Alt. FirstRosenberry claimed that Alt's program was "flawed," and now we hear him bad mouthing Merrit Grund. It would appear that he has a problem assuming responsibility.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

It is usually people that aren’t happy with any program that show up to see what they can find wrong with the way things are being done. So, maybe there really aren’t as many disgruntled and unsatisfied hunters as some people and organizations think there are.

Dick Bodenhorn

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

"It is usually people that aren’t happy with any program that show up to see what they can find wrong with the way things are being done. So, maybe there really aren’t as many disgruntled and unsatisfied hunters as some people and organizations think there are."

Dick, normally I would agree with your thought process. This time I respectfully submit that the overall decline in license sales over the years since the PGC inacted this poorly managed herd reduction program plus the loss of (currently) 14% license sales in the past 2 years coupled with the poor 'disappointing" turnout for the seminar clearly proves you wrong. Nobody is buying the PGC's "magical, Mystical Method of accounting.
Also to accentuate my point simply look at the loss of nonresident license sales and that should convince even the most naive person of your misconception.

What's needed from the agency is a concerted effort and plan to stem the loss of license purchasers and turn the downward spiral around into a positive spin and increase in license sales. Was Carl Roe the best choice to lead the agency forward? Everyone initially presumed so. That has not been the case. The agency is failing. One would have thought that with Roe's military experience (30 year lifer) that he would have a no nonsense, take charge attitude. It would appear that he is a follower rather than a leader. Proof of that is the fact that he has not abated the rapid decline in license sales, the agency has no plan to address the problem, timbering has not increased to any significant degree, small game is at an all time low, and the deer programs failures are being blamed on biologists who no longer work for the agency.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I think you are way off base and totally failing to portray the real picture concerning the reductions in license sales. First of all I have no intentions of even concerning myself with this year’s sales in any comparison because they are still selling this year’s licenses, so that data is far from complete. Therefore, this year’s sales data has no validly comparative relevance.

Here are some facts for you to mull over though since you and the deerfly what people to think the decline in license sales is from mismanagement of the deer or some other fault of the Game Commission.

Let’s look at the license sales from a period of time prior to the concurrent deer seasons, herd reductions or any affects from antler restrictions and see how they compare with the trend of decline in sales from last year.

Year…………………………...License sales………………………% amount of decline

1998……………………………..1,071,205†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.N/A
2002 (first year of AR)…………1,017,154……………………†¦â€¦- 5.0 %
2005………………………………964,158… ………………………- 5.2 %

I don’t see anything in the recent decline that is out of line with what had been happening for years prior to the present deer management plans or Executive Director Roe’s appointment.

Now, just how would you suggest we stop the downward trend in hunters in this state or across the nation? Do you think maybe we could somehow hold non-hunters and people that don’t have the time or interest in hunting hostage in one form or another until they buy a license whether they want one or not?

Dick Bodenhorn

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

[align=center]SUNDAY HUNTING!![/align][align=center][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]PS You left out these years:[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][align=left]
Year…………..license sold…………….difference……………….. % change

2000…………..1,038,846………………+ 5,531…………………...+ 0.5 %
2001…………..1,047,820………………+ 8,974…………………...+ 0.9 %
2003…………..1,018,248……………....+ 1,094…………………...+ 0.1 %
2004…………..1,013,866……………….- 4,382…………………...- 0.4 %
Dick Bodenhorn
WCO, Elk County
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