RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Sorry to have upset you fellows, but where are the figures of license sales for August?
The agency suffered a 6% loss of license buyers last year. If this trend continues or increases in coming years how long before the agency is basically bankrupted? The question the PGC should be addressing is how to stop this loss. As it is now, they don't seem to care.

In any commercial enterprize losses such as these would bemade a priority. At Elmerton Avenus it's business as usual. This to me indicates that a change in executive management is needed. Corporations do it all the time. That's how they stay at the top of their game. Management that is entrenched for a lifetime generally end up stagnated andbankrupted as is the direction the Pennsylvania Game commission is headed.

All I have to say is, SHOW ME THE FIGURES FOR AUGUST!

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I'm sure Joe Neville is watching this thread and will post the numbers eithertoday or very soon.

The declining hunting license sales are not a problem unique to PA. Virtually every state in the US is experiencing a decline in lisense sales for both hunting and fishing.

IMHO, the decline in youth license sales is a huge part of that. I wonder if you could tell me what the USP is doingto do their part in helping to encourage young people to take up the sports of our great outdoors? This isn't justthe PGC's job. It's everyones job!

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

It's difficult to entice young people to take up the sport of hunting when small game hunting is so poor. Youth can get very discouraged with sitting in a tree stand and seeing very few if any deer.It's generally cold and can be very boring to a kid. Pheasant hunting on the other hand was a wonderful recruitng tool for young hunters. They got to shoot many and multiple times. Missing birds was nearly as much of a delight as was connecting on a rooster. Without a plentyful pheasant stocking program recruiting young people into the sport is not going to happen to any significant degree. Certainly the agency should be well aware of this. A healthy pheasant program would go a long way in gaining new and young hunters into our fold.

As it is now the agency is turning their head away from pheasants and in effect our youth. Elk and Fishers appear to be of greater importance. I believe their priorities are misplaced. Remember last year they wanted to eliminate the youth pheasant hunt. The outcry was so great from hunters that they were forced to recommit to accomidating the youth. They had to be embarrassed into doing the right thing. Also, the agency contributes nothing in the formof monitary aid for the Wild PheasantReintroduction Program that is going on in wesatern PA and hopefully will be extended into the Northeast this year. The agency has not budgeted forit in the last 3 years, yet they have money for the elk where only 40 to 50 lucky lottery winners will get the opportunity to hunt them and youth will be a vey minimal percentage of those lucky 40 hunters.

I know, your going to say they don't have the cash for the pheasant programs. I say CUT THE TIMBER that they are supposed to be cutting. I say gut the elk program and concentrate on small game, pheasants, grouse and rabbits. The agency should be investing inour youth and the future of hunting.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I've hunted these stocked pheasants 3 times in my life.Twice whenI was a kid,I hunted at a couple places outsideof Tunkhannock.There were guys all over and you had to practically kick the birds to get them to fly.Two years ago I went out with an older gentleman to a farm outside of Brockway Pa in the laste season.It was the same story.I know we have different views on alot of different issues and this is no exception.I'm all for creating habitat for all game species and that's exactly whay I see happening.I'm not for the instant gratification that ditch chickens create and I think the whole project should be scrapped.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Thsi response tells me that you obviously arent currently involved with any hunting youth. The youth pheasant hunt is something I've been involved in in the past several years and I can tell you it is very successful anywhere I'vebeen directrly involved. You yourself have said that pheasant hunting is a very good way to introduce youth to hunting. I agree. Does the USP contribute any funds or manpower to this very important program?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

After all this time I know that one is a favorite part of the USP/Slinsky anti-PGClitany, but how are you or JS qualified to judge where, how and when SGL timber should be harvested, on the roughly one-half of the SGL acreage that evenhas marketable timber?

Aren't they essentially required to cut timber in the interest of habitat improvements...or has someone decided it's now just another exploitable asset to be used for short term income in the absense ofsufficient operating expenses?

We've already explored the ongoing pheasant programs being led by Pheasants Forever, etc. They seem to be encouraged by whatever progress is being achieved and thepromise of future involvement by the PGC as funds permit.

Do they know more than you do, or is it more important just to keep up the condemnations in the hopes of winning more converts?

:eek:

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

You are cheap-shotting. How could you know what he does or doesn't do?
BTW, if you've only been involved with the youth pheasant hunt for the past several years you must be a very young guy.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

"DougF" Your comment of "Ditch Chickens" does not deserve a reply. Your hunting interests and experiences are obviously limited. So I'll just dismiss your post.

"BT" your knowledge of my participation in youth activities is about "0." If you've only been involved with youth activities for several years I have to ask, where have you been the last 25 years?

It should be noted that the PGC has paid employees who should be responsible for these activities and the planning thereof.
I'm glad to see that we agree that pheasant hunting is a great incentive for junior huntors. Please relay that thought to your friends on Elmerton Ave. It's obviously something that has recently slipped by them.

As for the comments by Dennis, well I take them with a grain of salt and then I move on to more important issues.

More importantly, where are the license sales figures for August?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Harrisburg.

Next!

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

You are partly correct. My knowledge of your participation in youth activities is limited. What I should have said, based on your statementsis that you obviously could not have been involved with the youth pheasant hunt. If you had, you would know how successful it has been with the youth in attendance.

Of course, you concluded incorrectly that my involvement with youth was limited to the last several years. What I said was that I had been involved in the pheasant hunt for the last several years. Over the past 25 (your number) years, I have been a JOAD junior olympic archery coach and president of a JOAD organization, president of an archery club, PFSC county league rep, UBP county rep, Cub Scoutmaster Boy Scoutmaster and probably a few things I've forgotten.

By the way, you ducked my question about what the USP hasdone to encourage youth participation in our sports. Or was your statement that it's too hard because there are no deer or pheasants your answer?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

This is not about our activities, it's about PA Hunting License Sales or lack thereof. Your deliberately trying to take this off an an unrelated tangent to bash the USP.

Has the PGC legislative laision been silenced by the agency from responding to the question or are the figures so bad that the agency is embarrassed toproduce them? As I previously stated, I expect the figure to be smaller than the previous July figure of 40% for resident license buyers.

Again, what is the figure for August as to the figure for the previous year?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

My hunting exoperiences are not any more limited than anyone else's.The thing is,I get satisfaction out of harvesting game that I actually have to hunt for.I hardly call shooting farm raised birds hunting,especially when they've been left out of their cages for just a few hours or days.Theneed for instant gratification and put and take hunting is far more harmful tothe future of hunting than having less deer than we had in the good ole days.Teach kids about conservation and about the effort it takes to become successful.Those that grasp that conceptwill be hunters for life.For those that are unwilling to hunt and expect the rest of the hunters to dish out $14/bird, can alsways go to a preserve.You may even find a few that will dress them out for you.No sense getting your hands dirty.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Thank you for your input.

Where are the hunting license sales figures for August?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I've heard the overall sales are down 9%.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I posted that part of the cause of the countrywide decline is the fact that were not recruiting our youth. It was very relevant to anyone who really cares about the declining numbers. Since the USP has such a problem with the declining license sales, I would think they'd want to do whatevr they could to help recruit our youth. Or is their motivation really from something else.....


This quote says volumes about you and the USP. You bought your license for twenty bucks and by damn you expect the PGC to solve anything that you dont like for that twenty. According to you, It's not your job, its not my job, the PGC should put a deer behind every tree and a pheasant behind every bush. Cut all the trees to pay for it and stop puting and by the way, stop putting any money effort into our elk herd.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Settle Down Fella's.Stop the Bickering.

One of you has already been warned.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Joe I don't understand..."I've heard the overall sales are down 9%."
I think that many of us were expecting to see the figures for all catagories,Adult Resident, Youth Resident, Non-Resident, etc.

In any event what do you attribute this negative figure to?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Do these figures correspond with what you've heard Joe?

Adult Resident Down 9%
Senior Down 19%
Non-resident Down 13%
Non-Resident JR Down 38%
Landowner Down 10
MuzzleloaderDown 7%

Total General Hunting Down 9%

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I challenge you to back up that statement!

Post youth hunting figures nationwide.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

It's a step in the right direction.

:)

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Do a google search on "declining junior hunting license sales" It produces 15000+ hits. Anyone not living under a rock know it's a widespread problem.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

I'm out of state and bought my PA ,icense for the first time in about 10 years. I applied for a doe tag and have not heard anything yet, when do they let you know? Before the season starts in 11 days?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

They were required to be mailed yesterday. You should have them this week for sure.

Good luck and welcome back to PA!

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Gee, thanks for clueing me in on the existence of Google. Now I repeat myself:

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

So what's the answer?Do we neglect the habitat to satisfy the 1 or 2 day a year hunters that are complaining no deer came by their tree last year?Should we continue to spent $14 a bird to stock tame pheasants?

I've been noticing less pressure and more empty camps during season for quite a few years now.Funny thing is,those same camps are full during bear season.Most of those guys have probably never even got a glimpse at a bear during the season before.I wonder why theykeep buying a lisence and heading to camp?I didn't kill a bear last year but the group I hunted with killed 4.I guessI should call my legislature and cry about that.Maybe they'll hold the PGC hostage over that.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

i too dont like the 1-2 day hunters. they also are ones that dont pay attention and shoot does in areas that are thin instead of moving to high populated places.
you bring up about the money for pheasants being a waste and thats your opinion. and mine is money being spent on elk are more of a waste of money. i know there are groups that help pay for the elk program but thats the case w/ pheasants and PF. Doug this is not about you, i know you have said in the past about the elk not being the best idea.
also i understand that the habitat is a big subject but what about it for grouse and game that can be hunted. a lot of people on here talk about all the other many animals that PGC is to look over and thats fine since thats what the law states them to do. but for sure you would think game animals would be top of the list. just my 2 cents

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

The numbers speak for themselves.

Adult Resident Down 9%
Senior Down 19%
Non-resident Down 13%
Non-Resident JR Down 38%
Landowner Down 10
MuzzleloaderDown 7%

Total General Hunting Down 9%

What needs to be addressed is how to stop the hemoraging of hunters. What needs to be done to abate the continued percentage loss each year? Six percent last year was bad enough. The 40 percent early figure was startling to say the least. There is no doubt that this 9% figure will decrease as rifle deer hunters purchase a license the week before rifle season, but another 6% loss on top of last years loss should be a major priority on Elmerton Avenue.

This business of hunters wanting a deer behind every tree is nothing more then foolish comments by some hunters who obviously have good hunting in their particular area. You will hear the same garbage as the PGC puts forth saying they don't hunt hard enough, or don't go deep enough or you have to go to where the game is. Tell that to the guys in Potter,Tioga, and Clinton Counties just to name a few. Some hunters have hunted 5 days running and haven't seen a deer.

If your hunting a Game Lands and you don't see at least a few (3 to 4) deer in the course of a day I'd have to say something is VERY WRONG. I might be able to accept that on private land, but that should not be the case on a Game Lands. The key words being GAME LANDS! Get it? GAME LANDS.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

6% this year is less than 6% last year.:D

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Pagobbler,how much money is thye PGC spending on Elk,excluding habitat work that benefits all wildlife?The Pheasant program is a waste of money.I have a fewbuddies of mine that are retired and hunt pheasants religeously.They complain about the cost ofa lisence yet average about 20 pheasants a piece each year.That's right,They each kill about $280 worth of tame birds a year and have the nerve complain about a lisence increase.

I don't have a problem with the 1 day a year hunters.I just don't think we should make it easy for them to kill a deer with little to no preperation and with no regard to the state of the habitat.

Crazyhorse,I had no problems finding and killing deer on public land last year from Northern Clearfield county to Cameron county.In most cases if you hunt for 5 days and see no deer,you're either a poor hunter,you stink real bad or your hunting where the habitat is poor.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

"In most cases if you hunt for 5 days and see no deer,you're either a poor hunter,you stink real bad or your hunting where the habitat is poor."

And there you have it Pennsylvania hunters. If you didn't kill a deer last year you probably fit into one or all of these catagories.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

There you have it!Of course 2/3 of PA's hunters are supportive of AR's etc so the way to fix things for the USP types is right before your eyes:


Put in some time to learn to be a better hunter,
take a bath,

and find some new hunting ground.;)

Sounds simple enough to me!

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

How much $ does the PGC spend on elk? I dont know. but i know its more than $0
they pay biologists, they do surveys they made viewing areas and so on. again i know they get money from other places for this but same as PF does for pheasants.
im sorry but pheasants can offer a lot more hunting opportunities than elk do in PA.
okay here is a question, if your not for pheasants what do you think they should offer upland birdhunters? or do they just not matter? tell them to go to SD or someplace?
as for a license increase, im for it. i would pay a lot more.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Here's some more numbers that speak for themselves:

139 out
of 759 vendors (18%) did not send in reports for the month of August yet.

Funny how you left that out! Was it deliberate or did you just not bother to have all the facts?

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Perhaps they were told by the PGC to hold their reports so the numbers wouldn't look so bad. Did you ever think of that?

Perhaps Joe neville will give us an update when all the reports are in. Then again he was a little reluctant to give us any figures at all.

Maybe you just don't want to face the fact that the agency is being mismanaged and are trying to divert the blame for their manyfailuresto the USP. But as you can resdily see the percentages speak for themselves. License sales are decidedly D O W NNNNNNNNN.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Yep, percentages tell me that potentially 18 walmarts have not reported their license sales yet. I'll reserve judgment instead of going off half cocked that the sky is falling.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Really? Let's review. Sales figures were posted at 3:23 yestreday afternoon while I was out of the office. Based on a telephone call I posted info here last night based on what I was told. I didn't see actual figures until this morning.

Reluctant? :D

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

crazyhorse,I didn't say you fall into that category if you didn't kill a deer last year.I said you fall into that category if you hunted for 5 days without seeing a deer.It still amazes me that people continue to hunt in areas where they claim there's no deer.

Pagobbler,the biggest problem with our small game hunting is that habitat is disappearing.The game lands in this part of the state have some of the best grouse habitat around so Idon't know what else the PGC could possibly do.Stocking farm raised pheasants is a huge waste of money.I never saw the thrill in hunting for tame birds that were just released into the wild just as I see no sport in killing a deer from a box blind as it comes into a feeder.

I think uplandbird hunting is great.I just prefer wild birds.Since the PGC can only control the habitat on the game lands,which is a very small percentage of total land mass,the upland hunters are going to have to pony up and do something about it.I belong to the grouse society and sponsor one of their banquets every year.They do all kinds of habitat work and even donated equiptment to the local chapter of habitat unlimited.Habitat is the key but people have to be willing to do more than complain about the lacl of deer and stocked pheasants.It takes more than the cost of hunting lisences to make the differance.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Very good thought T. Nah- lets just go off half cocked and stick with the conspiracy theories that seem to prevail in PA.

I can tell you one thing after readin all the negative hype about PA Deer hunting in the last couple years I wouldn't waste a nickel up there on a hunting lisc. You guys have completely turned me and probably many other potential hunters away from PA. Thats a shame.

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

Don't feel like you are out there on your own. Area campground and motel bookings from the always reliable New England archery hunters are non existant from what I've been told.

NON RESIDENT ARCHERY $189,798.00 $162,203.00 * -27,595.00 15 % DOWN

NON RESIDENT *
ADULT $2,493,929.00 $2,157,416.00 * -336,513.00 13 % DOWN

NON RESIDENT *
ANTLERLESS $253,625.00 $160,375.00 * -93,250.00 37 % DOWN

RE: Penn License Sales-AUGUST 06
 

"AJ" I don't believe that it's just us who have turned you or the many, many other out of state hunters off to buying a license in PA. There are far too many hunters who I have talked ( and I've had the opportunity to speak to several dozen this past year) to who hunt the Northern Tier who have told me they did not see a single deer in 2 or 3 days of rifle season on public land or had seen very few deer. They can't all be lazy hunters unwilling to go deep enough or stay long enough or bathe more frequently.

Too often I hear the super hunters say you have to go where the deer are. You have to move. Well, after a considerable investment in a hunting camp one is reluctant to travel clear across the state to hunt when their camp has always produced decent hunting. If I didn't have a camp I'd be trailing Doug up the mountain to his 70 DPSM honey hole. What these people need to do is take a room at theCrittenden Hotel in Coudersport and hunt Dutch Hill and North Hollow for a few days. It's clear that they need to experience some of our pain to fully understand what we're experiencing instead of labeling uslazy, weak, and smelly.

One of the biggest mistakes made in this state was to allow us to get an education. Now we can read, write, add and subtract. By that I mean we can't be fooled by misinformation presented as fact. We can count and understand percentage figures and their rise and fall. We know that forest certification can be more important than game when we talk of Game Lands and the timber on them. We know when false figures such as 1.6 million deer are thrown at us, and some of us are not about to swallow such falsehoods. It casts doubt on everything else the agency puts out, and well we should doubt them when they also know their plan is flawed as they themselves admitted yet allowed a biologist to manage unsupervised and without oversight under the guise of science. (Oh gosh, wasn't Alt the darling of the PGC once:-)

So don't be afraid to buy a non-resident hunting license and docome to Pennsylvania. But do be sure to consider going much deeper intoour woods, hunting longer hours, and please do bathe. Only then will your chances for success be realized.

A question for Joe Neville:

Joe, will you be hunting on a State Game lands the first day of Rifle season?