RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

As Rob suggested, we won't be able to notice a difference until at least next season if not the following one.

But, during our early archery season I saw 6 bucks total. Out of those 6 bucks 3 were legal and 3 were illegal under the antler restrictions. If this new deer management plan is to work then I should see more legal bucks next season...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I think AR has already had a positive effect as far as hunter attitudes are concerned. Virtually every bowhunter I talked to passed at least one sub legal buck and most seemed to have a positive attitude about having passed deer they would have shot if not for the AR.
The only buck left to rot in my stomping grounds was a 4 pt that was a legal buck to archers (Allegheny Co) but was shot with a smoke pole during the early M/L season.
Speaking of Alleghent County, I talked to a few guys that decided to pass on smaller bucks there voluntarily.
To the extent AR could work as of this early date, it seems, to me, to have us headed in the right direction

Member of NRA, BASS, Buckmasters and Life member of UBP.........Kill a big doe, Let the little bucks grow

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I have seen 9 bucks on my property,3 were legal.For the first time in 3 generations I posted my farm.I personally can't stand the thought of Alt's plan to kill more does.I have talked to Alt at meetings & although I can't prove it I feel that money is the motive for the antler restrictions.Alt wants bigger bucks for one reason...Out of State Hunters.I have been fortunate to kill alot of deer & only 3 would be illegal under the new restrictions,but here is my question my question & opinion..What happened to any deer is a trophy?I have passed up small bucks in the past but that should be my decision,this is a public herd not a private ranch.If we as Pa. hunters want to go to Iowa{which I do every other year}& hunt it costs $302.00 for a tag but you have a legitamate chance of getting a 140 class buck.I know there are bucks in Pa. that score 140 or better but the midwest seems to have more.In a few years if the restrictions work I think the liscenses will increase due to the chance of scoring on bigger bucks.Just my opinion.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Mr. D, please do some reading on the issue at hand. The PGC is trying to make a more natural breeding ecology by correcting the long out-of-whack doe:buck ratio.

Turd Fergusen, I don't think Dr. Alt is trying to push the big buck issue. It is a rather appealing side effect of a balanced herd. I won't say that I'm an expert on deer biology....I'm far from it. BUT, I will stick my neck out and say that those 6 sub-legal bucks on your property will be legal next year.

Change scares people! It's really that simple, I think. Almost everyone I know is worried that the deer are simply going to vanish overnight if we harvest does. It was not intended for us to 50 does a day and not one buck. It's not natural....we as hunters and managers have made it that way. I think in a few years we'll see some results that prove the Dr's theory works.

This isn't brain surgery, but it isn't simple math either....we all know that this is a project expected to cover a few years at the least. We need to give it a chance before we say it isn't working or that it won't work. Noone here is capable of saying that. How many leases have started some sort of management practice? I never hear them saying this will never work....they know it will because they already use similar tactics.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Jason,your right change does scare people.the 6 sublegal bucks could possibly & probably will be legal next year.But,for the past 3 years there has been a heavy palmented 4 point on my farm,if there is such a thing as a trophy 4 point this buck would be it,believe me this buck is huge body & rack.Now he is protected unless my kids get a shot at him.Mr. Alt wants the bigger boys to do the breeding,I've watched this 4 point kick the $hit out of a couple of decent 8 pointers last year & this year this buck is breeding some does.He has been a 4 point for 3 years now & apparently thats all he'll ever be.In my opinion we're not hunting &quot;High-Fenced&quot; game.I hunt fields where shots can range from 50 -450 yards.If a buck busts a field usually they are on the fly you can't count points.At one of Mr. Alt's meetings I personally questioned him & told him about the giant 4 pointer,I said &quot;most&quot; managed places want the smaller bucks shot.His reply&quot;If I told the hunters they could only shoot 4 or 6 pointers,how many licenses would we sell&quot;.I have taken some big bucks & really don't want to argue,I'm no biologist.What about slug guns?I hunt the mid-west & have seen & gotten some real monsters out there.Don't get me wrong,I love rifle hunting,I set up like I'm out west On the edge of a field overlooking a swamp.But with a slug gun I would have to definatley change tactics.With a slug gun don't you think more deer would get through to the next season?Just my .02 cents worth.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I see your point T. I think you could be expieriencing some bad genes, or it could be good genes undeveloped(Armchair Biologist<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>!<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>). Either way there is always an exception to every rule....hopefully one of your kids gets a shot at that palmated four pointer.

As far as shotguns....I'm not a fan of them, but I grew up with rifles and bows. I think it might be an effective tool in the future, but I don't think the PGC will mandate something like that anytime soon. After all, 1 million folks would have to rush out and buy slug guns and rifled barrels for their existing smoothbores. That would be harder to sell to the hunting public than AR. I'm not sure if more deer would get through the season with slug guns....todays slug guns are comparable to rifles up to 100 yards. We all know that a majortiy of deer are taken at 100 yards or less....so, the effectiveness could be touch and go in that respect.

To add a little to the fire....what is the PGC going to change for next year? Anyone have any inside info? What are they going to do if the doe kill isn't as high as they'd like it? Are they going to have high antlerless allotments again to &quot;help&quot;? Are enough people going to be patient enough to see if these AR's are going to work? Will there be an all out fallout of hunter's support after the first season....seeing all the spikes and Y's running around? I've read that wet spring weather tends to produce more and larger racks than dryer, droughtlike conditions. What if the next couple of springs are rather dry?

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Let me start out this time by saying that I AM a Biologist and FULLY understand the ramifications of having an &quot;out of whack&quot; buck to doe ratio. Its simply a matter of this: I would rather see more deer than a few. I would prefer taking a spike or y buck every year instead of a 5 or better every 5 years. I know what your thinking... Once the buck mature over a few years there will be many more legal buck to harvest.
This all makes sense if the doe pop were left as is. Alt wants dead deer at any expense in order to make the heard smaller!!! That's the bottom line. He sweetened it up and painted it with gold fringe to lure the average hunter into thinking that everyone would be killing trophy buck. I dont want trophy buck..I want a sizeable herd that will allow me to harvest at least one deer per year. When I want big deer I head up to Anticosti Island. There is NO doe slaughter up there and everyone that I go with always gets 2 very nice buck!!
Alt as a bear &quot;specialist&quot; says that he was surprised to find out that a large pop. of fawns were being killed by bear. I question his degree of surprise. Any layman with some knowlege of predator and prey interaction could predict that if bear numbers increase then fawn mortality would also increase. Something doesnt jive with his logic and I'd hate to think that his increase in bear pop. was done for the wrong reason.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

MR.D,I am not a fan of Gary Alt,I personally think he is a weasel.I understand that you have to harvest some doe but Alt wants them wiped out.I think he caved in to the auto insurance companys & the tree farms,they're always bitchin' about the damage deer do.My property will be posted for the first time in 3 generations.I have taken 1 doe in 26 years of hunting,my son killed one last year on opening day.I will let my two boys shoot one if the opportunity presents itself.The reason for posting my land is simple I enjoy watching deer,I like photographing them & trying to figure out the decent bucks.There are a few guys around who have to fill every tag they can.They buy 2 doe tags for Lawrence Co.& then get a few for Allegheny Co. In my opinion there is no way you can eat that much meat.I have a family of 4 & my 14 year old is a human garbage can,last year we got 3 deer I gave some to my brothers,inlaws & had cookouts at work & I still have deer in the freezer.Alt is way off base by wiping out the doe herd.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Turd,
Thanks for sharing my point of view. I just wish others had the same one!!!

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Let me guess, both you guys are over 50 and your fathers preached to you that &quot;Doe&quot; hunting is evil and shoot the first buck you see!

You guys sound like the hunting camp that is adjacent to me whose members are for the most part over 60 years old who dont shoot doe cause you are killing the &quot;breeders&quot;.

Get into the 20th century!!! OH NO CHANGE IS BAD AND &quot;EVIL&quot; MR ALT WANTS TO KILL ALL THE DEER AND APPEASE THE INSURANCE COMPANYS AND GAIN MORE REVENUE FOR THE GAME COMMISSION.

Get a grip!