Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Hey all you Pennsylvania hunters,

Are the antler restrictions working? This year I have seen more deer that DIDN'T meet antler restrictions than all other years combined. I swear, last year, the smallest deer I would see was a 7 point, this year, the biggest is a 6 point. I just wondered how many you guys have passed up. I have probablly passed up around a dozen. One was a REALLY nice 6 point. He was about 17 inches wide, probablly 7" back tines and good mass. He just didn't have any brow-tines. He was the only buck out of all the ones that I have seen that I might have harvested, the rest were too small for my standards, but, it is nice to know that there are going to be alot of nice bucks running around next year. How knows, I might be able to find a nice buck that meets my standards this year. Well, I was just curious on how the AR have been working.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet



Check out my hunting PICS here http://community.webshots.com/user/buckmagnet

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Of course they are not working, at least as far as seeing results. There is no way of telling if AR have been successful until a few seasons pass. You certainly can't have results when the experiment isn't over.

I've passed 8 bucks, 6 legal and 2 off limits. I can only hope most make it through a couple seasons.

<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>

<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

First Rob glad to see you again posting here. I was just about to send out the blood hounds for ya. Hows everything going? Me good my wife and I just bought a house down the shore here in NJ and will be moving in or closeing Nov 19 can't wait. But my wife right now has some problems with her wrist carpel tunnel syndrom. But I think she is doing better every day or I atleast hope she is. I just feel helpless right now but I pray for her every day. BUt hope all is well with you Rob and the cabin is GREAT and eveything you and your ever hoped. Good luck with it my friend.

Sorry for the rant BM As I just haven't seen rob post in a long while and I had to call the dogs on him before and glad that I just didn't have to do it again.

So back to your question Nope don't think you will notice for atleast 2 or 3 years. By then you will have more modifications made to it and it will be fine tuned and PA residents will be some of the luckyest people around. YOu should be glad Alt is behind you. Take care and get that 17 pointer I want some pictures

Brian

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

This is the first year they are being implemented , it won't be known for at least 2 years , more likely 3.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Too soon to tell if they are working. As for me, I passed on 2 bucks both sub legal before shooting my buck. they wouldn't have been shot even if AR's did not exist.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Guys, I didn't mean that I wanted to know if the whole plan is working, I wanted to know if you guys have been passing up alot of deer that will be legal next year. I should have re-worded it. I know that it will take several years for the full effect too show, I just wanted to know if we are all getting a good start on it.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet



Check out my hunting PICS here http://community.webshots.com/user/buckmagnet

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

the ARs dont apply to me yet!!...ive only seen one buck while hunting for sure that was alive..maybe seen alota spikes and small bucks i couldnt tell and called them does but nothin with a rack except one that if i shot a guy in a tree stand would caught my bullet after the buck so it got to live...thats in 3 yrs of hunting...maybe this year i can get one of the bucks an older guy had to pass up....i hope!all i want is one little set of antlers for my room!

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Only time will tell,The buck I took this year was the 14th buck I had around me.I would of passed on the others anyways.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

by the looks of the 5 bucks under AR size I've found left to rot and I reported to WCOs while turkey hunting this week. I'd say the AR is going about as well as many suggested it would.
Me I killed my rack buck only after I killed a doe...only because that's the order they came in.
Also I've seen at least a dozen bucks since mid October that were over 18&quot; and 8 pts . But that's normal for me. While I've seen an increase in sub Ar bucks splattered on the roads in this county this year.
some of the little yearlings I saw kids with the other week were button bucks as well. BT

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Yeah I have been passing some bucks up, so far 2 illegals, 3 legals that i couldn't get a shot at that would have been considered good, and 1 decent 8 point i goofed on

Jennings Buckmaster Bow
.50 Cal Thompson Center Renegade

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

We actually started this last season on the farm we rifle hunt. Adults couldn't shot anything under 6 points, youth hunters were allowed to follow letter of the law and could take a &quot;legal&quot; buck. Meaning the old PA Standard 3 inch spike. If any hunter in group had a doe tag they had to try to take a doe second week of the season. The farmer whose land we use hates all deer(crop damage) He has no problems with waiting for the big one for the first week he just wants to make sure that some of us use our doe tags.

So far during archery we have noticed a few larger bucks then normal but nothing that could be artributed to &quot;Let him go to let him grow&quot;.

All I think that will happen with the AR is that a lot of folks won't report their kills. Private land owners that follow the AR will have a great time in a few years but it will take some time and patience.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I saw only 4 bucks under AR this year. I took a doe but havent seen a big buck yet. Its my only hope that these smaller buck will make it past the youth hunters this year. I too have a son but have no problem letting him take a doe if he wants to and follow the same AR rule of the rest of us. Just my opinion....

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I wouldnt expect too much too soon its gonna take alot more than three years to see full effects.Probably 6+ years.The reason I say this is you gotta wait untill those mature bucks that have been smart enough to survive are able to breed and pass on there genetics.
Alot of problem is changing attitudes.
I hunt Ohio and NY and have family hunts and lives in PA. I see big deer both places. Im looking forward to adding PA to it in about 10 years.
good luck

TrestandEd

&quot;Hard work ... conviction ... pride ... responsibility ... class ... character ... success...BOWHUNTING

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I saw six illegal bucks today! All were acting like horny goats! Three were within twenty yards of my stand. In the past I would have loved to have shot them. Now they were just a pain in the butt, winding and snorting at me after watching them for several minutes. Next year is going to be great!!!

Gar

Just Say No to Crossbows!

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I was in Somerset Co this past week and saw 20+ buck-most were legal deer.There were a couple that I'd have liked to shoot but didn't get the shot I was waiting for.I think in 2-3 seasons,you'll be able to see the results.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

JimPic,
I'm from Bedford County, Where exactly did you see these bucks???? I've got a few days to hunt this week and was just wondering....

>>>------------>
Pinmaster - At Home In The 11 Ring!
>>>------------>

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Drove from Shippenville into Lehigh co. yesterday on route 80, averaged seeing a splattered deer every mile or so. at LEAST half were bucks, of that only 1 that we saw was bigger than a Y.
looks like were saving those smaller bucks from the arrows an bullets to just be taken by Ford an Kenworth.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I know the antler restrictions are going to change the way we hunt in our group a bit. We usually sit for the first few hours of the day then we usually do a few drives to push the deer through the woods. A lot of the initial concerns among the group are negative about the restrictions. Excuses range from no sense shooting anything unless a huge rack or a doe - not being able to count points on a moving target. My initial thoughts are that when driving the deer we won't push them as hard and keep it more quiet to get them moving slower through the woods to the shooters so there is a better chance to look at them. But my guess is going slower will be futile and we will have more deer break back on us. I think the AR is going to help in the long run but old attitudes and habits are hard to break. I hope it helps all hunters in that the Public Game Lands last year were not safe lots of hunters taking lots of shots with old restrictions and concurrent buck and doe season created a brown and down kind of atmosphere. Larger bucks and hopefully more safety is something I don't think anyone can argue with

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

First off, I don't live or hunt in a big buck area. Warren county is known for lots of deer...not big ones. I took vacation on thursday and friday to hunt.

Thursday I saw 6 bucks. One &quot;unicorn&quot;, a 6pt, a 7pt, 2 8pts and a 10pt. I also saw a whopping 4 doe. I missed one of the 8s at 40 yards(miss judged yardage for 30).

Firday morning I saw an 8pt at 7am...he needed to take two steps, but alas he winded me and was gone. One spike fed in a few minutes later and hung out feeding for a while. At 7:15am I shot a LEGAL 4pt(I'll explain in a minute).

He came in behind me in some thick laurel. I saw 4 pts on one beam, drew and picked a spot. Positive he was legal....I released. Hit a little forward and broke both shoulders on a pass thru. He went 20 yards and expired. I climbed down a little while later and found a half rack! I was a little upset that I didn't identify that, but happy that the shot was clean and quickly dispatching. If the other side wasn't broken off he would have probably been an 8 with about 13-15&quot; inside....that's a little above average around here, but not all the area is capable of producing.

SO, in two days I saw 9 bucks and 4 doe. Of the nine bucks two were not legal for me and 7 were. Of the legal deer all were respectable for this area and one(10pt) was an absolute monster. Thursday and Friday were the last two days of the season I'll have to hunt, so I needed to fill the freezer. A doe would have been fine, but the half rack I shot(thought 8pt) would have been better.

My theory on the AR's....
It'll work in time. Don't expect results immediately. We may see some results next year. In a few years we my have some real big bucks running around the mountains. If there is any area that the AR's will help....the ANF and Gamelands will most benefit. It's these public access areas that have way out-of-whack ratios. There is a lot of food in alot of these areas, just not the corn and soybeans and wheat that farm country offers. Acorns, beechnuts, hickory nuts, walnuts, wild blueberries and strawberries, grasses & general browse. The bodies on the woods deer are smaller than that of the farm deer, but the genetics still allow quality animals and lots of them.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I have to say again that I dont agree with the AR. I like to see lots of deer during a hunt and cant see the icresaed doe kill and AR helping this . I used to hunt the Adirondacks (big country with relatively few deer but large buck if you can find them). I dont want PA turning into that scenario. If Dr. Alt et.al. want to increase our number of trophy buck then why not just have an AR and keep the doe pop. the same. The major projected increase in doe harvest is sure to lower the size of the deer heard dramatically! Im sorry to say that I think the best hunting days of my career are behind me. My son will never enjoy seeing 20 to 30 deer in one day as I have in the past. Yes, I would love to get a wallhanger every year but also enjoy the taste of venison so a doe in the second week would not be a problem. Remember the days of one deer per year? I'd bet my hotseat on a wet day that you saw more deer back then too.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

As Rob suggested, we won't be able to notice a difference until at least next season if not the following one.

But, during our early archery season I saw 6 bucks total. Out of those 6 bucks 3 were legal and 3 were illegal under the antler restrictions. If this new deer management plan is to work then I should see more legal bucks next season...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I think AR has already had a positive effect as far as hunter attitudes are concerned. Virtually every bowhunter I talked to passed at least one sub legal buck and most seemed to have a positive attitude about having passed deer they would have shot if not for the AR.
The only buck left to rot in my stomping grounds was a 4 pt that was a legal buck to archers (Allegheny Co) but was shot with a smoke pole during the early M/L season.
Speaking of Alleghent County, I talked to a few guys that decided to pass on smaller bucks there voluntarily.
To the extent AR could work as of this early date, it seems, to me, to have us headed in the right direction

Member of NRA, BASS, Buckmasters and Life member of UBP.........Kill a big doe, Let the little bucks grow

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I have seen 9 bucks on my property,3 were legal.For the first time in 3 generations I posted my farm.I personally can't stand the thought of Alt's plan to kill more does.I have talked to Alt at meetings & although I can't prove it I feel that money is the motive for the antler restrictions.Alt wants bigger bucks for one reason...Out of State Hunters.I have been fortunate to kill alot of deer & only 3 would be illegal under the new restrictions,but here is my question my question & opinion..What happened to any deer is a trophy?I have passed up small bucks in the past but that should be my decision,this is a public herd not a private ranch.If we as Pa. hunters want to go to Iowa{which I do every other year}& hunt it costs $302.00 for a tag but you have a legitamate chance of getting a 140 class buck.I know there are bucks in Pa. that score 140 or better but the midwest seems to have more.In a few years if the restrictions work I think the liscenses will increase due to the chance of scoring on bigger bucks.Just my opinion.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Mr. D, please do some reading on the issue at hand. The PGC is trying to make a more natural breeding ecology by correcting the long out-of-whack doe:buck ratio.

Turd Fergusen, I don't think Dr. Alt is trying to push the big buck issue. It is a rather appealing side effect of a balanced herd. I won't say that I'm an expert on deer biology....I'm far from it. BUT, I will stick my neck out and say that those 6 sub-legal bucks on your property will be legal next year.

Change scares people! It's really that simple, I think. Almost everyone I know is worried that the deer are simply going to vanish overnight if we harvest does. It was not intended for us to 50 does a day and not one buck. It's not natural....we as hunters and managers have made it that way. I think in a few years we'll see some results that prove the Dr's theory works.

This isn't brain surgery, but it isn't simple math either....we all know that this is a project expected to cover a few years at the least. We need to give it a chance before we say it isn't working or that it won't work. Noone here is capable of saying that. How many leases have started some sort of management practice? I never hear them saying this will never work....they know it will because they already use similar tactics.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Jason,your right change does scare people.the 6 sublegal bucks could possibly & probably will be legal next year.But,for the past 3 years there has been a heavy palmented 4 point on my farm,if there is such a thing as a trophy 4 point this buck would be it,believe me this buck is huge body & rack.Now he is protected unless my kids get a shot at him.Mr. Alt wants the bigger boys to do the breeding,I've watched this 4 point kick the $hit out of a couple of decent 8 pointers last year & this year this buck is breeding some does.He has been a 4 point for 3 years now & apparently thats all he'll ever be.In my opinion we're not hunting &quot;High-Fenced&quot; game.I hunt fields where shots can range from 50 -450 yards.If a buck busts a field usually they are on the fly you can't count points.At one of Mr. Alt's meetings I personally questioned him & told him about the giant 4 pointer,I said &quot;most&quot; managed places want the smaller bucks shot.His reply&quot;If I told the hunters they could only shoot 4 or 6 pointers,how many licenses would we sell&quot;.I have taken some big bucks & really don't want to argue,I'm no biologist.What about slug guns?I hunt the mid-west & have seen & gotten some real monsters out there.Don't get me wrong,I love rifle hunting,I set up like I'm out west On the edge of a field overlooking a swamp.But with a slug gun I would have to definatley change tactics.With a slug gun don't you think more deer would get through to the next season?Just my .02 cents worth.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

I see your point T. I think you could be expieriencing some bad genes, or it could be good genes undeveloped(Armchair Biologist<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>!<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>). Either way there is always an exception to every rule....hopefully one of your kids gets a shot at that palmated four pointer.

As far as shotguns....I'm not a fan of them, but I grew up with rifles and bows. I think it might be an effective tool in the future, but I don't think the PGC will mandate something like that anytime soon. After all, 1 million folks would have to rush out and buy slug guns and rifled barrels for their existing smoothbores. That would be harder to sell to the hunting public than AR. I'm not sure if more deer would get through the season with slug guns....todays slug guns are comparable to rifles up to 100 yards. We all know that a majortiy of deer are taken at 100 yards or less....so, the effectiveness could be touch and go in that respect.

To add a little to the fire....what is the PGC going to change for next year? Anyone have any inside info? What are they going to do if the doe kill isn't as high as they'd like it? Are they going to have high antlerless allotments again to &quot;help&quot;? Are enough people going to be patient enough to see if these AR's are going to work? Will there be an all out fallout of hunter's support after the first season....seeing all the spikes and Y's running around? I've read that wet spring weather tends to produce more and larger racks than dryer, droughtlike conditions. What if the next couple of springs are rather dry?

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Let me start out this time by saying that I AM a Biologist and FULLY understand the ramifications of having an &quot;out of whack&quot; buck to doe ratio. Its simply a matter of this: I would rather see more deer than a few. I would prefer taking a spike or y buck every year instead of a 5 or better every 5 years. I know what your thinking... Once the buck mature over a few years there will be many more legal buck to harvest.
This all makes sense if the doe pop were left as is. Alt wants dead deer at any expense in order to make the heard smaller!!! That's the bottom line. He sweetened it up and painted it with gold fringe to lure the average hunter into thinking that everyone would be killing trophy buck. I dont want trophy buck..I want a sizeable herd that will allow me to harvest at least one deer per year. When I want big deer I head up to Anticosti Island. There is NO doe slaughter up there and everyone that I go with always gets 2 very nice buck!!
Alt as a bear &quot;specialist&quot; says that he was surprised to find out that a large pop. of fawns were being killed by bear. I question his degree of surprise. Any layman with some knowlege of predator and prey interaction could predict that if bear numbers increase then fawn mortality would also increase. Something doesnt jive with his logic and I'd hate to think that his increase in bear pop. was done for the wrong reason.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

MR.D,I am not a fan of Gary Alt,I personally think he is a weasel.I understand that you have to harvest some doe but Alt wants them wiped out.I think he caved in to the auto insurance companys & the tree farms,they're always bitchin' about the damage deer do.My property will be posted for the first time in 3 generations.I have taken 1 doe in 26 years of hunting,my son killed one last year on opening day.I will let my two boys shoot one if the opportunity presents itself.The reason for posting my land is simple I enjoy watching deer,I like photographing them & trying to figure out the decent bucks.There are a few guys around who have to fill every tag they can.They buy 2 doe tags for Lawrence Co.& then get a few for Allegheny Co. In my opinion there is no way you can eat that much meat.I have a family of 4 & my 14 year old is a human garbage can,last year we got 3 deer I gave some to my brothers,inlaws & had cookouts at work & I still have deer in the freezer.Alt is way off base by wiping out the doe herd.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Turd,
Thanks for sharing my point of view. I just wish others had the same one!!!

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Let me guess, both you guys are over 50 and your fathers preached to you that &quot;Doe&quot; hunting is evil and shoot the first buck you see!

You guys sound like the hunting camp that is adjacent to me whose members are for the most part over 60 years old who dont shoot doe cause you are killing the &quot;breeders&quot;.

Get into the 20th century!!! OH NO CHANGE IS BAD AND &quot;EVIL&quot; MR ALT WANTS TO KILL ALL THE DEER AND APPEASE THE INSURANCE COMPANYS AND GAIN MORE REVENUE FOR THE GAME COMMISSION.

Get a grip!

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

ilbback,your wrong I'm not over 50 as a matter of fact I'm 40.Now &quot;GRIP THIS&quot;...in my 26 years of hunting I've shot 31 bucks,I hunt Iowa,New York,West Virginia & been to Canaduh twice eh!I've shot 1 Pa. doe.Of all my Pa. bucks 3 would be considered illegal according to point count,call me lucky.Do you own any property other than the piece of land your outhouse sits on? I doubt it,I on the other hand do own a large amount of land & I see nothing wrong with shooting a doe BUT last year 1709 doe were killed in Lawrence Co. this year the PGC in thier infinate wisdom allocated 7000 doe tags & they're sold out! Asswipes like you who probably hunt public land & shoot the first thing you see & bitch about the only thing you ever get is spikes will shoot every doe they have a tag for. Go ahead & kill them then in 3 or 4 years go to one of Almighty Alt's meetings & ask him &quot;WHY ARE'NT WE SEEING AS MANY DEER AS BEFORE&quot;? I have a helluva herd running around here & I love it! I've been very fortunate to grow up on this land & know every inch of it,my question to you & Alt is simple &quot;What happened to any deer is a trophy&quot;? As I stated before I've been lucky & have passed smaller bucks I just feel it is my or anyone elses'bussiness to pick & choose.If you want to shoot a spike thats your bussiness not the PGC.This is a public herd the PGC does not own it! Let Alt buy 2000 acres fence it in & run it like a preserve.If this works & Pa. does start producing more book racks & the PGC knows they can make more money of of license sales to residents & non-residents people like you will be the first to bitch & moan about the increase & in my opinion it will happen.

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

Hey turd, Grip this..Yah i do own 236 acres in southern Bradford county! So dont give me your land owner BS. Up here our doe to buck ratio is so out of whack from years of buck over harvest its not even funny. From my guestimation our buck to doe ratio is like 10 or 12 doe to every buck, and no i dont shoot the first buck i see. Thus far in archery season I have passed on over 8 different buck while taking one doe. Glad you have lots of deer running around, so do we. Too many in my estimation and the AR will help alot. It only makes sense that if you are not going to take as many buck this year due to AR that you have to shoot more doe to keep the deer population &quot;even&quot;.
most hunters I have talked to are trying to take a couple of does with the increased tags issued.

As far as wiping out the herd....It will never happen!!!! Too much private land in PA and too much land and places for the deer to hide.

I can only hope that next year you will see the results. If any deer is a trophy than whats wrong with shooting a doe and doing your part like most of us and trying to better balance the deer herd and make PA a better place to hunt for all of us.

And FYI I only hope that PA raises Non residence fees. I have been an advocate of that for years!! Maybe the AR and a hefty license increase will decrease the number of scrub racks i see going back to NJ every year piled up on out of state cars.

Give it 2 years....if I am wrong I'll come down and eat crow at your place in lawrence county!

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Are the ANTLER RESTRICTIONS WORKING???
 

The only reason AR would fail is because Turds and MR.D`s of the world not following the new laws set in place. Alt`s plan needs some refinement as far as smaller management units go, but he has been so busy explaining the obvious to our oversized crowd of second graders that it is a wonder he has gotten as far as he has!

My suggestion to the naysayers would be to start looking for a good recipe for crow now!
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

30 years ago, did we not have lots of deer to hunt? You bet we did! Well, 30 years ago PA had half as many deer in the state herd as we do now!
Do your part, shoot the does, and everything will be better.

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA