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RE: A question for R.S.B.

Heres a question for R.S.B.

If you was the head of of the agency.?. Would you respect the constitution of america? Would you judge people without witnesses??(as if they seen the crime they have to be there for the search)? And only then would you have the right to do so then in their person or persons not related to or affilliated to you at the time of the search??? Would you hold everyone under your command to this standard and expell indiffentlly them for the violation of the above if they didn't follow this??

RE: A question for R.S.B.

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All a Cop has to do, or for that matter all I have to do to find out if you have a drivers license in this state, is call in your vehicle registration which takes about a minute to get a response as to who owns the vehicle along with their address. Then with that information they can query everyone at that address to find out whom all has a driver’s license and if anyone is on suspension of their driving privileges.

All of that takes about two to four minute so they still have lots of time to pull you over. The State police can do all of that directly from their car computer (premier) system in minutes.

At this point that can’t be done with a hunting license.

It's really getting funny watching you guys squirm to avoid the point. You can't be sure the driver of any vehicle has a drivers license without stopping the vechicle and checking. Do all the checks you want but that fact is you don't know who the driver is. Your twisting and squirming to avoid this simple truth is very telling. Clearly you don't have an answer to the original question and that pretty much provesthe point.

RE: A question for R.S.B.

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I think my credibility is just fine though I also think it is getting easier all the time to find which ones fit the profile of the radicals.

R.S.B.,
When WCO's begin posting their views on the internet it's also pretty easy to see which ones are the wild life professionals and which ones fit the profile of "bad apple". If you truly want to improve the image of the PGC you really should just quit posting. Leave the pr to the professionals. I'm afraid you are really bad at it. I believe it was Twain who said, "It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt". Take his advice!

RE: A question for R.S.B.

"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt". Take his advice!

"Sylvan", I think you've scored a major point and I second that motion.

RE: A question for R.S.B.

I once had an occasion where one of the Rambo-wanna-be deputies was among a group of us in a workplace. The guy was spewing out some of his war stories when he told a "Joke" that pretty much sums up the attitude that gives the PGC law enforcemnet team a bad rep.

It went something like this:

What seperates a sportsman from a poacher?.....
His answer:...... A Witness!!!!

What is sad is that he seemed to really believe that. And if these pages, and the expereinces of folks like windwalker are any indication, this is the prevailing attitude and a large part of their image problem.

RE: A question for R.S.B.

One reason I get irritated in PA about checking my license is: It's on my back!

I hunted VA and VT for 7 years and was NEVER asked to produce my license and in those states you don't have to display your license. I never met anyone in those states that hunted without a license, most people are honest. It's not about poaching or protecting the animals it's just to make sure you paid for everything and PA got it's money. If something isn't quite right they fine you and get more money. If license sales keep going down they will make more rules and regulations so they can fine you more money and make up for it. It's all about the money.

RE: A question for R.S.B.

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ORIGINAL: Sylvan

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I am saying a cophas allot of other things to check ID ofvehicles for legality andcan check who owns that vehicle, if its inspected, and if its registered/insured.

So you are avoiding the point. The cop has no way of knowing whether or not the driver of the vehicle has a legitamate drivers license sofrom what you have saidI can only conclude that you support the idea that it's just fine for a police officer to stop you in order to acertain whether or not you possess a valid drivers license. How about if a cop can't be sure you are not making methanphetamine in your basement and decides on his own to checkthat out too. Using the same logic I guess that's o.k. too. Here's something that Paul Revere said with regard to thosewhowere too spineless to resist government edicts. "When the king's agent tells you to kiss his a$$, will you do it?"

I am just trying to have a conversation here, not trying to get you guys riled up. I do not see cooperation against poaching as "spineless". Read my fist post on this thread and you will see I do not agree with illegal search as I have been victim. I am purely talking tag and license checks here.

As I said, we can go over the cop thing all day. But lets put that comparisonaside for one minute.

How can a warden make sure you are licnensed?? Yeah, you may have a license on your back. It could be your friends or brothers?If he can't check, then I can come to PA and hunt for free. Just stick my friendslicense on my back. Or maybe I can getlicenses and doe permits for various family emembers and use up all those tags.After all, if I am not going to break game laws he can't check me to see if the license on my back has another name.Do you really feel that if I did this it isnot cheating you guys and other honest sportsmen?? Without a license check, you guys are inviting such violations and leave the law powerless to stop it.

I just think its odd that I see so many complaints about the deer situation in PA and then see so little support to stop poaching and other violators. Yes, I know many have had bad expereinces with wardens. I think we all have. But that still does not make me want to have them as powerless.

I have meet all kinds of hunters and anglersthrough the years.I have evenmet guyswho had the attitude that the fish and game belonged to everyone, so why should they have to even buy a license or obey bag limits?? They felt the game laws where infringement of the "rights" and flauntedthe fact that they openly violated game laws under the pretext that it was "government oppression" Freedom fighters or poachers??

I saw someone mention VT where you don't display a license. I spend allot of time there every year fishing. They check licenses everytime, even when I am out in boats. I get checked 2-4 times a year. I also have gotten checked in NH twice this year. MA too checks everytime. None of these stats require displayed licenses. However, All these states have laws stating "license must bepresentedon demand" The law is not there so they can harrass me. Its to protect thegamefrom those not putting in. Are most guys honest, well yeah. But not enough unfortunatly. You can see who was busted and what for on many state sites liek VT and Maine.

If you guys still feel a license check in un-constitutional, contact SCI or another large American hunting organization and start a petition for a lawsuit. If the organizations agree with your position, they will back the initiative and challenge the law in court. If you guys win, then you are all set.

RE: A question for R.S.B.

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ORIGINAL: R.S.B.

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ORIGINAL: Windwalker7

I'm still trying to find out why I was checked for taking a camera into the woods to film deer.

Why did I have to show my drivers license?

Why did they check my hunting license?

I could have been wearing my grandmother's hunting license on my back and it should not have mattered. I had no weapon on my person and was entering private property.

A few on here support this practice of checking and searching for no reason. So I ask you.

Why would two WCO's check my licence, driver's license, check out my video camera, pushing all the buttons and taking the video tape out. WHY?

I don’t have any idea what occurred in your case but I do know that there are some really good reasons to check people with a video camera when it appears they may be part of a hunting situation, in season or out of season.

Every WCO out there has had illegal hunts videoed, including many out of season hunts. A few years back there were a couple of big name hunters caught doing just that here in various areas of the state and they had it all on video tape. Over the years I have seen a lot of illegal hunts, including the kills, put on video.

Perhaps when the Officers saw you with the camera it fit some other previous bit of information they had and they felt a need to confirm what you were or weren’t doing. Or, perhaps this was during that same time period we were looking for the guys that we knew were filming illegal hunts.

Incidentally it would have been illegal for you to have had grandma’s license or anyone else’s license with you in the field that day even if you didn’t have a gun. I’m not saying you would have been cited if you had grandma’s license and wasn’t hunting but you certainly could be.

Dick Bodenhorn
WCO, Elk County

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that it is illegal to wear a jacket, with someone else's license on it, in the woods even if you are on private property, armed just with a camera? What if I was just taking a walk? Are you saying it is illegal to wear another person's license all together? If this is true, it is not right.

By the way, This was back about 1988. VHS cameras had only been out for about a year.There were very few hunting videos on the market then. There were a couple out from Knight and Hale and Bob McGuire.

The officers seemed real interested in it. I could tell they never handled one before. They were pushing buttons and asking how to get the tape out. Don't ask me why they felt they needed to eject the tape.

I was alone so why would they think I was filming an illegal hunt? I guess if I had a 35mm camera in my hand, they wouldn't be concerned?

RE: A question for R.S.B.

Quote:

Windwalker7,
I'd be curious how it was that you were by yourself and armed with only a camera yet it appeared that you were "part of a hunting situation".

Are we to understand that possessing any device that has ever been used in an illegal hunt makes you subject to be stopped and questioned by the game comission? You've got to be kidding me. What a can of worms that opens!

I'm beginning to suspect that R.S.B. is not a WCO at all. Any WCO I've ever met or talked with has been much more sophisticated. This fellows logic and writing is sophomoric. Not at all what one expects from a conservation officer. Of course I'm from NY. Maybe the standards are different here.

RE: A question for R.S.B.

Just a little FYI about VT. Not only can you be asked to show your license at any time by a game warden, but any land owner can request to see it as well as your ID which has to be on your person at all times. Your licenses even has you SS# on it and you can't purchase a licenses without one.More and more states are like this and they seem to keep standing the consitutional tests.

I think if you guys feel this strongly start talking to attourneys till you find one that wants to make a name for themselves and will do a class action suit. Personally I believe you will do more harm than good, but everyone is entitled to their interpretation of right and wrong. Nice thing is we live in a country where we can speak our minds and if we feel strongly enough do something about it.