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Remember PA Guys......

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Old 08-07-2006, 02:23 PM
  #41  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

I grew up in Wyoming county.That area is all private except SGL 57.I have a brother that lives in the southern half of 3C.I'm not saying there aren't areas with low deer numbers in those areas but there's way too many in the areas where I hunt.I have no issues killing several deer there if I can get tags.

I live in 2G where it's almost all public land.Once again,some areas have few deer and some areas have plenty.I have no issues shooting adoe anywhere in this part of 2G.In some areas the habitat is so bad,more deer still need to be killed even though there's few there.If you do your homework and find areas with better food and cover,you'll find plenty of deer.I didn't send in for a 2G tag this year because they slashed the allocations from 58000 two years ago to 19000 this year.I did get a few dmap tags and I plan on using every one of them with absolutely no guilt what so ever.

Livbucksthere's nothing wrong with using discretion.I wouldn't kill a doe in an area that few deer and good habitat.I will continue to shoot them in areas where the habitat is poor because that's what needs to be done.When the habitat is as stressed as it is many areas around here,it takes very few deer to continue to do damage.
DougE is offline  
Old 08-07-2006, 04:57 PM
  #42  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

ORIGINAL: DougE

I remember reading about Madl's alleged offeces a long time ago.I'm not saying he was innocent or guilty because i never saw any of the evidence.I thought this was looked into by the AG and most of it was dropped.I honestly don't know what the total outcome was.You wouldn't have a link would you.If the allegations were true,I agree that it was about as bad as it gets.
Since a lot of PGC personnel (including perhaps the ones who post here) knew about what was going on but did not speak up until he left, is speaks volumes about their character and/or lack thereof.
BTW, because of technicalities, Madl was never prosecuted. It doesn't mean he didn't do those awful things and the PGC has always stood by the accusations it made.

Release # 67 – 99 Dec. 15, 1999 For Information Contact: Jerry Feaser 717-705-6541 (ext. 3106)
GAME COMMISSION SEEKS MADL'S RESIGNATION AS DEPUTY WILDLIFE CONSERVATION OFFICER
Madl also asked to be prepared to repay Game Fund

HARRISBURG - At a Capitol Hill news briefing, the following statement was released on behalf of Pennsylvania Game Commission Executive Director Vern Ross:
"Today I'm announcing that I have asked for the immediate resignation of Donald C. Madl as a deputy Wildlife Conservation Officer (WCO) for the agency," Ross said. Madl had served in the Pennsylvania Game Commission from 1962 until 1999, and retired as executive director this past May. Before retiring, Madl assured his appointment as a deputy WCO in Westmoreland County.
"Just prior to taking over as executive director, I received evidence alleging that Madl had unlawfully taken Commission property. Shortly after being sworn-in as executive director, I turned this information over to the Office of Inspector General (OIG) and requested a thorough investigation of the allegations," Ross said.
"Based on an examination of invoice, inventory and computer records furnished to the OIG by the Game Commission, the OIG report concluded that, from January 1993 through April 1999, Madl abused the Commission's ordering system. The OIG report concluded that Madl ordered on his personal inventory account and the Executive Office account: 67 pairs of black socks and 69 pairs of boot socks; 4 pairs of rubber boots, 14 pairs of summer boots, 8 pairs of winter boots and 7 pairs of dress shoes, all in a variety of sizes; and 6 insulated vests.
"The OIG compared Madl's ordering habits for vests and socks to those of an
average field Wildlife Conservation Officer (WCO) and an average Bureau of Law Enforcement officer in the Harrisburg office. The OIG found that Madl's vest orders were 8.6 times higher than those of an average field WCO and 30 times higher than those of an average Bureau of Law Enforcement officer. Madl's orders for socks were 3.1 times higher than those of an average field WCO and 9.8 times higher than those of an average Bureau of Law Enforcement officer.
"The OIG report also concluded that when Madl retired as executive director on April 30, he failed to return equipment and supplies issued to him, including: 12 tires; 2 computerized Global Positioning Systems; 11 Game Commission badges; 1 Sharp Wizard Organizer; 1 Pentax camera; 1 Motorola radio; and 1 Sony voice-operated recorder. Once the OIG initiated its investigation, Madl returned many of these items to the Commission.
"Based on interviews with Commission employees, the OIG also concluded that, between 1988 and 1998, Madl used Commission employees and equipment to perform personal services during normal working hours, including: skinning 123 deer shot by Madl; skinning 52 deer shot by Madl's friends and family; plowing the driveway to Madl's house approximately 10 to 12 times; and repairing Madl's hunting trailer approximately 6 times. Additionally, the OIG discovered that between 50 and 60 of the deer Madl brought into the office for skinning were not properly tagged, which is a violation of the Game and Wildlife Code.
"While the statute of limitations has expired on prosecuting any alleged violations of the Game and Wildlife Code, we have been informed that the Office of General Counsel has transmitted a copy of the OIG report to the Office of Attorney General for possible further action.
"In addition to seeking Madl's immediate resignation, I have informed him that the Commission also will be asking him to repay the Game Fund for what we believe was a clear misappropriation of Commission equipment and services. Once calculations are completed, an itemized bill will be presented to him for payment.
"This truly is a sad day in the history of the Pennsylvania Game Commission. But the OIG report has sparked positive changes within the agency.
"Besides seeking Madl's resignation and reimbursement, the Commission is taking other actions suggested by the Inspector General's investigation. Steps already have been taken to increase the security of the Commission's equipment warehouse, and we are conducting an on-going review of agency policies and procedures regarding distribution of equipment.
"The Game Commission chose to announce the findings of this investigation and the corrective steps taken by the agency to the public for three very simple reasons.
"Number one: We recognize our responsibility to discuss issues of public concern. The recently-released U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services' Management Assistance Team (MAT) Report provided recommendations on how the Game Commission can improve its effectiveness and efficiency. One of the recommendations was to provide the public information about issues of public concern. As this is a matter involving a former public official whom we believe violated his position of public trust, it was determined that this information must be provided to the public.
"Number two: We must demonstrate that we are working to restore the Commission's credibility with hunters. Hunters need to know that the Commission will act responsibly and prudently with the funds they have entrusted to the agency for the management of Pennsylvania's wildlife and enforcement of the Game and Wildlife Code. We also need to assure hunters that allegations of misuse and misappropriation will be investigated and not ignored or swept under the rug.
"Number three, and perhaps most important to the future of the Commission: We have an obligation to our employees to support them when they come forward with information about issues that need to be addressed. One of the other MAT Report recommendations focused on the need to build trust within the Game Commission. The recommendation encouraged leaders, supervisors and managers to: be honest; be fair; keep your word; be consistent; and be accountable.
"In addition, the MAT Report specifically recommends that we include a 'whistle-blower clause' that encourages Commission employees to come forward when they perceive a breach has been committed. Fortunately, Commission employees willingly stepped forward and fully and completely cooperated with the Inspector General's investigation. I believe that it is thanks to their standard of ethics that the OIG was able to offer such solid conclusions.
"Based on the conclusions of the Inspector General's report, I believe it is clear that Mr. Madl acted with little regard for the reputation of the Game Commission or the morale of its employees. He will be held accountable for those actions.
"On behalf of the Board of Commissioners and the entire Game Commission, I offer our thanks and appreciation to Inspector General Robert DeSousa and his staff for conducting this important investigation. We believe this information will help improve the Game Commission's standing with Pennsylvanians and with our own employees."





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Mocha Java is offline  
Old 08-07-2006, 08:38 PM
  #43  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

Isn't this strange? No comment from RSB. Cat must have his tongue.
Crazy Horse RVN is offline  
Old 08-08-2006, 07:22 AM
  #44  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

Thanks for the link.That's pretty much how I remember it.It doesn't appear to be a PGC cover-up if they asked for his resignation and still stand behind their accusations.So who dropped the ball on this case?It looks like the PGC acted accordingly.Am I missing something?
DougE is offline  
Old 08-08-2006, 12:07 PM
  #45  
 
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

"Am I missing something?"

Yeah,... you are.
Crazy Horse RVN is offline  
Old 08-08-2006, 12:15 PM
  #46  
 
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

Yes you are: Madl did what he did over a multi-year period with the knowledge and help of numerous WCO's and other employees. There was other stuff like him allegedly killing more than 100 deer and having PGC personel gut and skin themfor him.

But Ross said in a statement that the report alleged that Madl had:
Used commission employees and equipment to perform personal services during work hours between 1988 and 1998. Among them: skinning 123 deer apparently shot by Madl, skinning 52 more apparently shot by Madl's family and friends, plowing the driveway to Madl's house from 10 to 12 times, and repairing Madl's hunting trailer about half a dozen times.
The problem is all the PGC employees who were in on it but kept their mouths shut. Many of them (if not most) are still on the job making policies and enforcing game laws against hunters even though they gave their boss a pass. Kind of third-world like.
I am not the first person to say that the PGC needs a good enema.
Mocha Java is offline  
Old 08-08-2006, 02:37 PM
  #47  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

If all of those accusations are true,and I'm not saying they aren't,it's dispicable.Still,It looks like the PGC tried to do something about it.
DougE is offline  
Old 08-08-2006, 02:44 PM
  #48  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

Yeah -- they waited till the statute of limitations had run out and then announced how "shocked" they were.
Nice try.

Though the two-year statute of limitations has run out on the alleged game law violations, the rest of the findings are being examined by Attorney General Mike Fisher's office.

Mocha Java is offline  
Old 08-08-2006, 04:21 PM
  #49  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

"If all of those accusations are true,and I'm not saying they aren't,it's dispicable.Still,It looks like the PGC tried to do something about it."

Yeahhhhhhhhhh,guyswith PGC Law Enforcement badges deliberately looked the other way and made exceptions for their leader. How could Madl and his family shoot 150+ deer for deer damage on other peoples farms? They can't, It's against the law. I'm sure RSB is fully aware of that.

How could PGC personnel process that many deer without supervisors knowing about it?

Those deer would have to be examined and counted by a Game warden. At least some of them should have been. Yet no one stepped forward.

One has to ask, are there other high ranking PGC employees shooting farm damage deer on property other than their own??? (I think that this calls for an internal investigation.)

Is it any wonder that RSB has gone back into hiding. If I were he I'd be embarrassed also.

"DougF" your not really serious are you? Previous to this subject (Madl) you appear to be quite inteligent. But now you seem to be totally ignorant even when facts are delivered to your doorstep. Perhaps that'swhy your so recptive to the propaganda the PGC spews about deer numbers.Possibly your simply gullible.


Crazy Horse RVN is offline  
Old 08-08-2006, 04:23 PM
  #50  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Default RE: Remember PA Guys......

I'm not condoning it or trying to make excuses for them.I have plenty of criticism myself.It just doesn't seem like they tried to cover it up.
DougE is offline  


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