Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060511/NEWS/605110347/1006

The woman who owns this land should be taken out to her property and if there are any trees left, she should be hung from one. This is true Eco Terrorism in my opinion. "My land might be labeled for preservation, so I mightnot be able to sell it for 10s of millions of dollars to people that will rape it for construction. So, i'll rape it myself so there will be no need to preserve it" Im sorry, nothing but a selfish ********! Yes, your land may be targeted for preservation and yes it might not be worth as much if it wasnt, but if you decide to sell, im sure the state will come upwith enough $$ to make you comfortable. You might not be able to buy a new BMW every year, but you'll be comfortable. The more I read about *** like this and read that landowners and farmers are doing everything possible to defeat any type of land preservation initiative, the less I feel for them and the more I think they are just greedy selfish *****.

If you are a land owner, you have to look a little further than yourself and your family. Land isnt like a car, a house, etc. They arent making anymore of it. What you do with your property affects so many other things. The enviornment, the ecosystem, society as a whole. You shouldnt look outside your window in the morning and be thinking "Hmm, I wonder how big of a house I can get in Orlando forthat ground" If that is all you think about, you disgust me! [:@] If anyone on here knows landowners who think this way, please share my feelings with them.

I know i'm going to catch hell for writing this, but I dont care anymore. I cant stand whats happening to this state and how its being turned into nothing but a big Philadephia/DC suburb. If all the landowners in this state care about is how much green they can sell there property for, I hope they phucking choke on it and get nothing but despair and misery from their new found wealth.

Very Hot Topic - BUT - lets tone down the Language

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Well I am against any development andCLEAR cutting of and woodland. I wish they would make it 10 axres here in pa to build a home

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I agree with you duckmaster. People who act like this just have their head so far up their a$$ they don't know what the heck they're doing. The only good thing is she probably doesn't even realize it but she probably created some great new growth habitat for the wildlife over the next 20 years.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060511/NEWS/605110347/1006


If you are a land owner, you have to look a little further than yourself and your family. Land isnt like a car, a house, etc. They arent making anymore of it. What you do with your property affects so many other things. The enviornment, the ecosystem, society as a whole. You shouldnt look outside your window in the morning and be thinking "Hmm, I wonder how big of a house I can get in Orlando forthat ground" If that is all you think about, you disgust me! [:@] If anyone on here knows landowners who think this way, please share my feelings with them.

I know i'm going to catch hell for writing this, but I dont care anymore. I cant stand whats happening to this state and how its being turned into nothing but a big Philadephia/DC suburb. If all the landowners in this state care about is how much green they can sell there property for, I hope they phucking choke on it and get nothing but despair and misery from their new found wealth.
[/quote]
When you get to senior high they will teach you about the free market & private property rights.If you do not like what some one does with their own land then you should buy it and do what you see fit.
The places that you would be happiestare mostly in europe where there are no property rights and the gooberment tells you where & what you can do with the land you live on.
In this country you are free to move to another state if you are not happy where you are.You seem happy enough with freedom of speech but property rights for others piss you off.Grow up and buy a piece of land then you will have the control that you want the gooberman to have!!!!

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I guess there isen't more to life then money. Thats what your saying right? Thats the american way MINE !Mine mine mine and I'll sue you. I'm getting old. I remember wjhen this used to be a great country, I'm just sorry you young folks will never know.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

In this capitalistic environment, looking out for ones own self-interest is a top priority for 99.99% of the population. Nothing new. This story seems to be of one who has found a "loophole" perhaps and is doing the cutting before some restrictions kick in. Hopefully, the trees wil grow back and the conservation plan will ultimately succeed. I think the 10-acre restrictions are a good thing. Perhaps the landowners should be given some sort of tax credit for land that can not be developed. Perhaps they already are. Happens all the time.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

How far are you willing to go to give up control of private property to the government?
Need to be very careful what you wish for.

Steve

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

So I buy MY land...and you want to tell me what to do with it????

Me thinksYOU will be voting Clinton 2008....

That's like you telling me how to wipe my butt. Not right.

Everybody gets their 5 acres...but doesn't want anybody else to.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Everyone enjoying watching our country erode into an tight nitch European union????



I'm all for conservation, but the governement has no businessin private landaffairs. Government wants to control land buy it themselves just like we dowith real estate.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Excellent post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I won't try to add because the original post irritated me to the point I don't think I could keep the language respectable. Good job bawanajim!

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I was wondering when the hate mail would start! :D I'll respond to all the capitalism purest tonight.

How about this, eminant domain to SAVE land from development, not take it away too develop it. Now thats something for the good of all society!

Go ahead boys, let her rip!

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

How about no eminent domain!!;)

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I agree that its her land and she should be able to do whats she sees fit. In this case, I do think she is selfish to not think of the envoronment, but it is her land.

However, On the flip side. Compete "hands off" attitude dosn'talways work when the general welfare of the environment and public are at stake. If I own300 acres of land, and decide to lease it to a chemical company to dump toxins. Is that OK?? After all, it is my land right?? Off course not. Landowners still should be held accountable when their actions effect others.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I agree about the Chemicals, pollution ect., I just didn't feel like listing it but your right!!;)

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Dumping chemicals is already illegal.And has nothing to do with this thread.Where does the paper we use every day come from,what about the wood to build homes.If she owns the land and pays the taxes on it then they are her trees to do with what she wants.All land is regulated to a point but taking basic rights away from land owners with out fullcompensation is wrong.Its like telling a farmer not to pick his corn because you want to hunt the deer it feeds.

Maybe she just doesn't like trees!

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Let me first addressbawanajim and Sylvan. I love listening to everyone's opinions, pro and con. But since you all decided to go with the smart ass approach, allow me to retort. Let's see genius, I have Bachelors Degree in Business, within a month I'm hoping I'll be a CPA and have worked 13 years in the Financial Services industry. I think i have a little bit of knowledge about Capitalism, Free Markets, Property Rights and so on. And as to your Rights comment, if your talking about this part of the 5th Amendment "nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation" , I don't believe Isaid they should take her property. I did a second post that mentioned Eminent Domain for land conservation. I did this just to get everyone all fired up. I don't believe in it. Never have. Just wanted to throw it out there and see what others thought. So, I suggest you do a little more thinking before you attack someone on a subject. There are plenty of people here who disagree with the original post and didn't approach it with "when you graduate high school, you'll understand things". So to you two I say, start threads on business concepts, the Bill of Rights etc., in another forum and I'll debate with you until your fingers fall off. Until then, bite me.

As for Pro-Line and your comment:

No, I wont be voting for Hillary in the 08 election, but roll out any other
democrat and they will get my vote. I've always voted Republican, but not this time. To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, 'I was a Republican, I didn't
abandon the Republican Party, the Republican Party abandoned me' But
again, if you would like to discuss the 2008 election, please start a
thread and we can debate it there. I can go on and on and on,,,,,

Now, back to the real topic at hand, destroying the environment on your
land, like woman in the article, just because its been designated for
possible preservation. In a previous article, the DNREC spokesman made it clear that just because its green on the map, doesnt mean it cant be developed. These were just lands that were considered enviornmentally important and it should be taken into consideration before development rights are granted. Hell they already trimmed the areas they want to designate by 200K acres! The arguement that just designating land for possible preservation wipes out the property value is just wrong and I dont buy the womans statement that she didnt do it for spite. She did it for spite and also to manipulate the land designation for her own selfish wishes. To hell with the trees, wildlife, etc, as long as I can get my millions on demand with no hassles. Its greedy, its wrong, plain and simple!

Now I agree that its NOT right for the state to simply take a persons property or even prevent them from selling it if they desire. But I dont think its unreasonable to make landownerstake a few extra steps in the process or even make them listen to alternative selling options if they own enviornmentally important properties. In the end, if the state cant either a) come up with enough fair compensation for the property, or b) cant convince they landowner to take a little less than a developer is offering for the sake of the enviornment then you have to let them do what they want to do.

The point im trying to make is, the state needs to come up with a plan to persuade landowners to preserve land and slow down sprawl until such plan can be developed. Landowners need to look inside themselves a little deeper before they just sell to the highest bidder. And people like the woman in the article, well, I think I made myself clear about what I think about people like that and what should be done to them. They should be ashamed of themselves.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I most of missed the part of the article that was so bad. The Logging? What's wrong with that, it's probably the best thing that can happen for most land if it's done right and they didn't say it wasn't.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Duck the property you had me check on at Rt 6 & 9 , Someone just bought 25 acres for 250 g's and kept 2 acres for a homesite and sold the develpoment rights to the state on the rest of it for
$9,000 per acre. So he will end up with about 70 G in it . The corner has not been sold, the part was sold is from the farmhouse West 25 acres.. You need to get on this it is across the street from your lease.l...

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

So you just thru this out there to see what ya got back at yadoes it suprise u that when you rite like a child u get responded too like a child.
For some one that says that they ben to schole your cents of rite an wronge don't fill your smart shoes.
Save a tree eat a beaver!!!!!!!
And get a real job! ;)

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Now Im real impressed. I retract everything I've said. I can't debate such a talented response.Let's all agree with bawanajim, someone with insight like this cant be wrong! [8D]

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

If you do get this degree are you going to work for the gooberman to stop all these capitalist or are you going to get a real job and lend money to people that want to develope the land for families to live on?

The real world is a tough place to live!

I have spent the last ten years paying for 150 acers in one track that I have been buying one small piece at a time .I have bought thirteen pieces over the years & now I control over a mile of property that the gooberment just spent three million dollars putting in a sewer line on.Now they want me to develope it .But The time is not right ,I have a daughter in school and I do not want to retire yet.But when I do my return on investment will make oil stocks look bad.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Is this lady's land in the Chesapeake Bay Drainage??

If so then she (especially publicized like this) has fairly comprehensive guidelines to insure that her land does not damage others especially the water.

If she lives somewhere else then there are probably other guidelines she has to go by.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

You can do better than that .Just be more carefull about what you ask for .
Trees grow back the only way to protect land for wildlife is to make that land more valuable as habitat than as home lots.Some areas will never meet these standards.
Make the battles you pick the ones you can win.
The land I bought was clear cut the skidder ruts were four feet deep.
It has taken years and alot of cash to make it usefull again.But when I put it for sale I willget a great return on my money & I get to hunt & fish it all I want.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I still dont know where you get off talking this smack? So, caring about the enviornment is something we should all just forget about a let landowners do whatever they please and to hell with anything else? Its as real as it gets.

So you are a sell out too? Since we have a landowner present that can give us some real insight, let me ask you this, if the state could offer you a deal that wouldnt give you as much as a developer to perserve your land, but enough to make you and your close family comfortable if you took that money and invested it wisely, would you take the larger sum or take a little less and preserve the land?

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Will I settle for less from the gooberman ? Never!
I have spent years planting apple trees ,building ponds & cutting down poor quality trees.I have created a wildlife wonderland that I enjoy every day.
When I put it for sale I hope to find a man that like myself busted their a$$ @ work so they could enjoy a life in the woods as I have.My Land is worth a lot as housing units but its worth alot more as a woodland retreat.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

So your goal is to preserve the land that you have worked so hard to create, but if someone will offer you more than the state and you know full well their plan is to rip out all those trees you've planted and put up houses, you will sell to the private bidder for more $$$?

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

In my mind you betcha !!!!



In my heart I don't know that time has not come.

But that choice should not be anyones but mine.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Then you are just an investor looking to make a profit. And thats fine, just dont try and play it off to us here that you care more about the land and the enviornment.

Agreed, I just hope you keep an open mind when that time comes.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

How much land do you own, Duck? Just wondering.

I have 450 +/- acres...and it's amazing the restrictions ALREADY that the gov't wants to place on my land...and it's in CENTRAL WV.

This post isn't an argument...just wondering if you can shed any insight from your area.

I live in central Ohio, and own 6 acres here...the regs here are rediculous. My neighbors are trying to get me to mow my entire 6 acres. Good luck with that one. LOL

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I know like many many other Delawarians where your coming from on this allthough many who don't live here or not familiar with the Habitat Rape have no clue.Zoning is a joke.People feel they have the right to convert there land despite the effect it may have on the ecosystem and infrastructure(sp).

The developers are running up the scare tactics to convince land owners they have all the rights,the state has none and there land value will take a nose dive in value if the state reclassifies land and/or density use.
This is pure Cow Dung.

I put most if not all the blame on our town councils,county commisioners,DOT,and all elected officials up the food chain for not stepping up to the plate on zoning,rezoning,land use,density issues etc...
I guess that's a little much to ask when many elected officials are sleepijng with the enemy so to speak or have a direct conflict of interest on the issue.

The state has every right to preserve land from developement particularly the sensitive our ecosystems.It also has every right to purchase land as it does at every opportunity.They have in fact purchased hundreds if not thousands of acres in Sussex county much of which is on or around wetlands that would otherwise become homes or condos with no public land use.That means you and I have no access to hunt,fish or even set foot.

What this lady did to her property might come back to bite her in the Butt. But goes to show you what people will do to prove a point or the almighty $$buck$$.

I can tell you that most of the people in this state do NOT have the same attitude as this lady or some in this thread.She is a minority at best

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I find it ironic that the youth of today think that the gooberman is the place to look when you don't agree on how things are going.You chose to live in an area that has plenty of high paying jobs but you tell the people that live there that they can not cash in on this progression.If these land vales are going up at the rates you express it seems a no brainer buy some land sit on it for 10 years and then reap the profits.

There is no differance it what you want the gooberman to do for you ( provide a place to hunt & fish )than inner city housing for the poor.Neither is in the constitution & neither will work.

There seems to bemore people that want to buy these homes than people that want to save the trees.You might want to move to an area where this trend is reversed.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Well, not all chemical dumping is illegal if you have the right permits. Midwest companies dump chemicals into the air and water all the time legally.

Regardless, my expample of chemicals is extreme, but it was to make a point that the "its her land, she can do what she wants" does notwork under all circumstances. There has to be a middle ground...

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

I own 1/3 of an acre my house is on in North Wilmington, that is all! :D

Listen, If i havent made it clear enough, i'll try again. I do NOT think that the state should have the right to take anyones property without paying FMV for the land and having the permission of the landowner. But, we all know that the state doesnt have the $$ to compete with private developers. So, they have to come up with a plan that would entice landowners to take less green upfront, to sell to the state so the land can be preserved. I have a few ideas, but i'll post them when im a little less tired. Not that it makes a difference, in not governer (sp). :D

But I wont back down from what I said about the lady in the article. You dont level 25 acres of wood lots just because your pissed about the state labeling the land as enviornmentally sensative, in fear that you might not be able to make the millions you hoped to make. I'll go as far as to say that, that is just evil. Destory all those trees and landscape other species relied on just to save your wallet???, no way man. Burn in hell. Thats the responsibility landowners take on, whether they like it or not. So many other things are affected by their decisions. They need to take that into account.

I will say this in open forum and I mean it, if the state knocked on my door and said they wanted to take my house and land, were going to pay me FMV or could give me a compensation plan that made me happy to turn the place to open space, I'd take it so fast you wouldnt believe. If they said they wanted to takeand level the property and put a Walmart and offered to pay me double what it was worth, i'd tell them to go to hell, and shoot whoever tried to take it when all the lawsuits ran their course. If the state said they were taking my house 'for the good of all' and paid me nothing, well, i'd fight that too. But I wouldnt destory my property and land to make it inhospitable for wildlife just because I didnt like the options being presented to me. And thats what the woman did in this case. I really hope that doesnt continue across the state.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

interesting posts..all of 'em.. since it has to do with developing land. what I hear in these posts, I see @ day. the farms are gone..the orchards are gone.. the huntin' land is gone...the peace is gone... worse yet, the heretige is gone. call it progress, call it destruction, call it greed, call it entrepeneur, call it BS..don't matter, it's due to population increase. throw a rock in the pond,the circles spread outward,not inward. As for what a man can/can't do on his property..the freedom has limits...and should. if you want elbow-room,and live in a fast growth area(ours' is the 26th fastest growing county in the nation) take advantage of the $$ that your home has increased DUE to the growth, and move. the ONLY vialble solution. the people are here, the $$s here..and everything has it's price. I've seen 2nd generation kids WAIT for the elders to pass on ,so THEY can get the big bucks.... maybe Dad wouldn't sell, but we will....and they do, all of 'em..'cuz you can't make 3 million dollars working a 400 AC farm in a LIFETIME...nor, with all the Gov't regs on chemicals/sprays,labor laws,etc,can orchards viably harvest a crop these days, and sell out. I'm 50 YO, and I've seen literally thousands of PRIME Shenandoah Valley farm land now raise houses instaed of cattle.....
the old adage(sp) still holds true.... $$ talks, BS walks.....

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

Trees are a crop just like corn or apples.They just take longer to harvest.Cutting down old forest opens the canopy to sun light which in turn will start new growth.Timber harvest is the best thing you can do to make better deer & small game hunting.


1/3 of an acer , Sounds like if your not living on the edge your taking up to much space.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

We can all agree clear cutting land for spite was a foolish thing to do and doublely so it in that particular case it hurt the local enviroment.
That being said , when did the any govt entity pay fair market value for a piece of land that they claimed eminent domain? Maybe ,just maybe a few times if a person was lucky to have the money to afford a real good lawyer. Guess people who like eminent domain aren't to abreast of happenings in the last few years. Hope some developer doesn't like your nice farm to put up a mall or townhouses because thanks to the U.S. Supreme court they can do just that if the local govt officials like the idea. With most places seeing nothing but read ink today the dangling carrot of a bigger tax base and presto your land is history.

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

...I'm bettin' you'll be seein' fewer and fewer malls in the future, unless the Gov't gets a handle on National Debt, and control individual debt more than it is now......
debt is no joke, and payback-day hasn't arrived..............yet.... ask any economist that's credible, and they'll tell whats' coming.....

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

...I'm bettin' you'll be seein' fewer and fewer malls in the future, unless the Gov't gets a handle on National Debt, and control individual debt more than it is now......
debt is no joke, and payback-day hasn't arrived..............yet.... ask any economist that's credible, and they'll tell whats' coming.....
[/quote]

You are exactly right.These creative mortages are going to bankrupt alot of people.The gooberment owes a fortune to China ,social security and other hand outs.The baby boomers are done working and now are drawing money instead of paying taxes.As they die there will be a flood of homes on the market , home prices will drop and many people will owe many times what their houses are worth.

Thats when I am selling my trees. ;)

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

The state(Delaware)has purchased at "Fair Market Value" many thousands of acres that are now protected from the Habitat Rapists.
Its called preservation of open space,habitats,wetlands,and species unique to this area.If states don't buy up land to protect it you can bet the habitat rapists(developers)will bull doze every last SQ foot.

The town I live in is currently in an uproar over proposed annexation of farmland,approx 390 acres.Over 200 area farmers and residents packed into a local restaurant to organize against the annexation.The developer was granted 786 units at 2 units per acre.In the process the developer came back,ask for and received R3 zoning which would allow up to 8-12 units per acre! Hello - Knock - Knock any idiots awake at city council?

Any damn fool that is familiar with roads in lower Delaware knows full well as one farmer put it "There proposing enough traffic to drown us".Thats just the roads not to mention all other public services. This is only one of 2-3 other bone head moves by our illustrious council to annex,rezone and/or approve developement that is outlandish and ill planned.

Bottom Line alot of piss poor business and planning.Land use,density and growth patterns need to be well defined - and - adhered to.
It ain't all about what I have the right to do with my land and screw everybody else.

Numerous state agencys have called my towns plans "Uncoordinated Approach to Planning". Still these Local Yocal town councils and county commisioners continue to annex and build at an uncontrolled rate to increase the tax base.

Back on Topic;
Its not always landowners, its developers who don't give a flyin crap about these communitys they rape and then laugh all the way to bank.
Don't forget our Dead Head local politicians all the way up to the state capital and governors mansion!!

RE: Delaware Landowners going too far!
 

So who is it that is buying all these homes?Who really are the greedy folks those that will sell their land or the buyers that will sell their souls for a high paying job in the city.
On one handyou fight to stop people from developing land thenyou admit thatyou own a home on 1/3 of an acer.That is 14520 square feet.Thats a piece of land fourty yards square.
You are right I do see a problem with this.But you seem to be more a part of the problem than I am.Heck I have trees that shade more land than you live on.At 8 houses per acer you would own a 25yard square plot of land.That is really sad.