DEER Population ,SHOCKER
04-13-2006, 07:58 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
How uncooperative is the PGC in Pa.They have a very limited budget yet around here the are constantly doing habitat improvement projects.Two years ago they rotated several big timber cuts for habitat just a few miles from my house.They do this every ten years.I know one WCO in this area that has signed up thousands and thousands of private property into game/farm coops.I personaly think we have it made in this state.We have endless amounts of public land to hunt on,endless amounts of opportunities to harvest game and some of the best scenery around.My freezer is full this year just like it is every year.It takes a little more effort these days but that just makes the experience that much better.
The biggest stumbling block the PGC faces is the self-centered greedy hunters that expect hunting to be easy at the expense of the habitat and the 90+ percent of Pennsylvanians that don't hunt.These hunters demand more deer yet they still fill every tag they can get their hands on.We have one of the easiest ways to report our kills yet 60+ percent refuse to comply.Ironically,these are the same clowns that complain about the PGC not having a handle on the harvest numbers.
The biggest stumbling block the PGC faces is the self-centered greedy hunters that expect hunting to be easy at the expense of the habitat and the 90+ percent of Pennsylvanians that don't hunt.These hunters demand more deer yet they still fill every tag they can get their hands on.We have one of the easiest ways to report our kills yet 60+ percent refuse to comply.Ironically,these are the same clowns that complain about the PGC not having a handle on the harvest numbers.
04-13-2006, 09:35 AM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: West Winfield New York USA
Posts: 545
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
The biggest stumbling block the PGC faces is the self-centered greedy hunters that expect hunting to be easy at the expense of the habitat and the 90+ percent of Pennsylvanians that don't hunt.These hunters demand more deer yet they still fill every tag they can get their hands on.We have one of the easiest ways to report our kills yet 60+ percent refuse to comply.Ironically,these are the same clowns that complain about the PGC not having a handle on the harvest numbers.
04-13-2006, 10:45 AM
#13
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
I agree DougE
What we have to remember is this is area specific and what happens in your area isn't necessarily what happens in someone else's area. I personally have deer sightings daily where I live but I do know the numbers are drastically down. Now that is not arguing pro's or con's for this area. Some areas were and still are overrun with deer, other areas where deer were few are now fewer....it was a measure that had to be done and now that it is done we as hunters need to take the necessary steps to either have a regrowth in an area that needs deer and that may mean buying doe tags and not using them. In other areas that may mean getting multiple tags and filling them. It is now not up to the PGC and I firmly they don't have a clue however the PGC did not shoot the animals, hunters did so who can you blame. I blame fellow hunters for being greedy. Yes, the PGC gave us the means but did we police ourselves as a community? No we did not. I have however policed myself. I filled my tag in 2001 were I also shot one doe. In 2002 I did not shoot a deer, buck or doe even tho I had both tags and ample opportunity for taking both a buck and a doe but chose not to as I didn't see the buck I wanted nor did I "feel" like shooting a doe. In 2003 I again, did not shoot a buck by choice because of size restraints on myself and I did not purchase a doe tag. In 2004 I shot a buck but did not purchase a doe tag, in 2005, same thing, tug a buck and did not purchase a doe tag. My prime hunting area is seeing a good buck to doe ratio and I'm seeing good antler growth. As the doe population may regain it's numbers I will again shoot a doe, or two if the herd needs it and a tag is available.
Again, this is only true to me and the area I hunt. Gone are the days that deer are behind every trees. The hunt is now on versus the kill of good ole days. Deer numbers are down in many areas and perhaps the deer are gone in others. It's now up to you to do what's right.
What we have to remember is this is area specific and what happens in your area isn't necessarily what happens in someone else's area. I personally have deer sightings daily where I live but I do know the numbers are drastically down. Now that is not arguing pro's or con's for this area. Some areas were and still are overrun with deer, other areas where deer were few are now fewer....it was a measure that had to be done and now that it is done we as hunters need to take the necessary steps to either have a regrowth in an area that needs deer and that may mean buying doe tags and not using them. In other areas that may mean getting multiple tags and filling them. It is now not up to the PGC and I firmly they don't have a clue however the PGC did not shoot the animals, hunters did so who can you blame. I blame fellow hunters for being greedy. Yes, the PGC gave us the means but did we police ourselves as a community? No we did not. I have however policed myself. I filled my tag in 2001 were I also shot one doe. In 2002 I did not shoot a deer, buck or doe even tho I had both tags and ample opportunity for taking both a buck and a doe but chose not to as I didn't see the buck I wanted nor did I "feel" like shooting a doe. In 2003 I again, did not shoot a buck by choice because of size restraints on myself and I did not purchase a doe tag. In 2004 I shot a buck but did not purchase a doe tag, in 2005, same thing, tug a buck and did not purchase a doe tag. My prime hunting area is seeing a good buck to doe ratio and I'm seeing good antler growth. As the doe population may regain it's numbers I will again shoot a doe, or two if the herd needs it and a tag is available.
Again, this is only true to me and the area I hunt. Gone are the days that deer are behind every trees. The hunt is now on versus the kill of good ole days. Deer numbers are down in many areas and perhaps the deer are gone in others. It's now up to you to do what's right.
04-13-2006, 01:44 PM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 576
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
It is now not up to the PGC and I firmly they don't have a clue
04-13-2006, 02:24 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
I think both agencies have a clue but DCNR has a better handle on the situation in the areas they manage.
Rob,nothing wrong with holding out on shooting a doe if you feel an area has too few deer.However,I've killed multiple doe every year since they first had bonus tags.This past yearI killed two doe and a buck and last year I killed three doe and a buck.I have no guilt doing it either.I know plenty areas that still have too many deer for the habitat in 2G and many more areas where the habitat is in pitiful shape.I have no issues shooting multiple doe in an area where the habitat is stressed.The regeneration I;m seeing now is simply incredible compared to just a few years ago.Furthermore,I'm convinced the state of the habitat contributed to very low fawn recruitment after the winters of 2003 and 2004 and we lost alot of deer during those winters in 2G.If the habitat can't support the deer,you have too many deer.Plain and simple.
Rob,nothing wrong with holding out on shooting a doe if you feel an area has too few deer.However,I've killed multiple doe every year since they first had bonus tags.This past yearI killed two doe and a buck and last year I killed three doe and a buck.I have no guilt doing it either.I know plenty areas that still have too many deer for the habitat in 2G and many more areas where the habitat is in pitiful shape.I have no issues shooting multiple doe in an area where the habitat is stressed.The regeneration I;m seeing now is simply incredible compared to just a few years ago.Furthermore,I'm convinced the state of the habitat contributed to very low fawn recruitment after the winters of 2003 and 2004 and we lost alot of deer during those winters in 2G.If the habitat can't support the deer,you have too many deer.Plain and simple.
04-13-2006, 02:50 PM
#16
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
DougE, I agree, in areas that the deer still need reduced by all means, tag away. That's my point, we as hunters need to take control and if you need them thinned, do the thinning, if not, don't..right?
T, in the begining, yes.....now, perhaps they underestimated the power of the hunters in thinning the herd. In many areas, they took too many, in others perhaps not enough. Don't get me wrong, I am for AR everywhere and was for HR but, not everywhere.
T, in the begining, yes.....now, perhaps they underestimated the power of the hunters in thinning the herd. In many areas, they took too many, in others perhaps not enough. Don't get me wrong, I am for AR everywhere and was for HR but, not everywhere.
04-14-2006, 07:14 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
Rob,I wouldn't shoot a doe in an area that had few deer and good habitat.Problem is,I don't know of any areas like that around here.There are areas with few deer but the habitat is terrible.
We've had a pretty drastic reduction in the herd around here,especially since2003.Things looked alot better this year because we had a mild winter last year.This year the winter was even more mild and we had an excellent mast crop.As a result,recruitment is going up.People continue to discount the effect the winters of 2003 and 2004 had on the deer in this part of the state.When you have several feet of continuous snow cover and no browse,deer die and the does fail to recruit enough fawns to stabilize the population.Letting the herd grow under these conditions is a mistake until the habitat starts to recover.That's why I have no guilt taking does in this area.
We've had a pretty drastic reduction in the herd around here,especially since2003.Things looked alot better this year because we had a mild winter last year.This year the winter was even more mild and we had an excellent mast crop.As a result,recruitment is going up.People continue to discount the effect the winters of 2003 and 2004 had on the deer in this part of the state.When you have several feet of continuous snow cover and no browse,deer die and the does fail to recruit enough fawns to stabilize the population.Letting the herd grow under these conditions is a mistake until the habitat starts to recover.That's why I have no guilt taking does in this area.
04-14-2006, 07:14 PM
#18
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NH.
Posts: 32
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
Cardeer . Its nice to see you post again Ive bein off the board for a year but you left it back then. I personaly have seen
the numbers in your zone decline because of housing, and also up In the mounting zones because off the tags . But I will tell you that The size Of bucks In mongomery, bucks, and chester countys are the biggest In the state. I have family that can prove It .I myself would rather take a 1 1/2 year old deer . than a three or four year old tough eater.My brother said they might lay off all the doe tags this year because the hunters are upset and the commish needs the money..Not sure If its true....
the numbers in your zone decline because of housing, and also up In the mounting zones because off the tags . But I will tell you that The size Of bucks In mongomery, bucks, and chester countys are the biggest In the state. I have family that can prove It .I myself would rather take a 1 1/2 year old deer . than a three or four year old tough eater.My brother said they might lay off all the doe tags this year because the hunters are upset and the commish needs the money..Not sure If its true....
04-15-2006, 06:56 AM
#19
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 460
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
Check the turnpike - they are all there. I hunt PA about every other year and have great luck. Maybe your specific area is just not suitable for a herd to run on.
My neihbor also goes to a farm that allow them up to 4 each since the animals are eating all the corn.
My neihbor also goes to a farm that allow them up to 4 each since the animals are eating all the corn.
04-15-2006, 07:37 AM
#20
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: DEER Population ,SHOCKER
ORIGINAL: Nord QC Bouman
that allow them up to 4 each since the animals are eating all the corn.
that allow them up to 4 each since the animals are eating all the corn.
I could be wrong but I don't know of many areas that allow that many tags and it's not up to the farmer to allow deer to be taken without proper tags, that is called poaching. There are however red tag areas...is that the case? The farmer himself can shoot as many as he wishes but can only keep one at a time for consumption and has to call the PGC for animal pickup.
I'd hate to speculate that there is illegal activity going on there. Am I wrong here?