hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

Not that I really want to stir this age-old debate up again, but...
I just read a nice article in Progressive Farmer on cougars east of the Mississippi River. The article was very straight forward, "knowledgeable", & stated many of, what I call, "common sense" views on the subject. Smoe key points:
- a wildlife biologist (Don Linzey) has been tracking sightings in the upper south (KY, VA, TN) for 24 years
- "there is no doubt that cougars exist in the Smokey Mts.,...but no evidence of breeding populations"
- they could be straglers of the FL and/or SD native populations and/or released pets
- a young male was collared in SD and found 700 miles away (in OK) a year later
- the distance from the area where KY, TN, & VA border each other to northern PA - ~650 miles
- so is it possible that some cougars COULD be wandering the hillside around here - I would have to say (as I have always stated) YES

RE: hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

There was just a great article in Adirondack Life regarding cougars in NY. The DEC denies it, but they have reasons to. If they admitted to having cougars, they would have to develop a plan to manage them. I have spoken to and read about too many people up north who have seen them and their sign. The North Country is certainly vast, hell some people still think that bigfoot is up there.

RE: hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

When should logic enter into these posts? Adirondack lions? We already have crashing deer numbers, and too many coyotes which, in turn, over compensate on the remaining prey, small game, and now we can suddenly support the highest predator on the chain? Nope, it didnt and hasnt happened. A chance escaped captive reared lion, living out its life, maybe, but thats about all. The lower appalachian trail has few and still no reproduction. Logic speaks for it all here, guys.

RE: hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

No need to insult anyone's logic. There is plenty for any animalto eat in the woods. Just because you are the highest on the chain doesn't mean that you can only eat what is next below you. That's logic to me. Just because deer aren't in abundance doesn't mean that cats would be forced to eat plants and rocks.

RE: hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

That's been basically my point all along and many others might I add. No one can certainly say they can garuantee there are or there are not mt. lions in the state of PA and those who think they cannot exist are fooling themselves. The biggest questioned posed all along is, why not? They certainly can wonder in from almost anywhere. Are they established, probably not, are they breeding, perhaps, perhaps not. Have they been sighted? I believe they have be it they migrated through, some released/escaped animal from somewhere...who knows unless it was captured and studied. Are they planted by the PGC or some insurance company....this I'm not sure I can believe but then again, our PGC has been so honest with us up to this point.

I stand firm that they certainly can exist in this state, we have food, water and cover.....when humans can get lost in our forests, cats can certainly exist without notice.

RE: hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

This is always a fun subject to debate. I am just hoping that we can all keep this thread more focused that a few in the past. Like the question that has already been brought up. "Why Not?" what would really stop mt lions from being able to survive in PA and NY?

How the got into these places is another question. I would be interested in some of the "logical" explainations of "if" these animals were here - what would stop them from being able to survive with the conditions that exist in NY and in PA?

RE: hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

I don't think anything would stop them. They don't HAVE to eat deer.

RE: hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

The forests have matured and become wild again after being decimated at the turn of the century. We have more deer now than we ever did before, I'm told. What better conditions could there be? Breeding populations? Not sure there. I don't think the few there could possibly be existing could find each other. Maybe, I don't know. I don't care to argue this subject. I'm taking a new stance...."who cares at this point".
If I see one it will certainly cease to exist, seeing how it wasn't there to begin with.

RE: hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

Here's an idea. Take a captive cougar, radio collar it and turn it loose in one of the wild regions. See how long it survives and how many times it gets sighted. I would neuter it first though, just in case. You're right though, they don't have to eat deer. They could eat your dog or your horse or sheep or kids...they could eat anything really, just like we can. Remember Jeffrey Dahmer?

RE: hey, let's talk about cougars again
 

"Remeber Jeffrey Dahmer"

Libbucks - is that your new war cry - like "Remember the Alamo"

LOL

They can eat anything and that'shem able to adapt to the what would make them adapt to the conditions of NY and PA. Breeding populations if they were to ever be in NY or PA - I don't think would happen in my life time but if there were a breeding pair around I don't see anything but coyotes that would be a problem concerning their survival. I am not sure home far away from a litter a momma mt lion would travel to give coyotes enough time to kill the kittens but I am thinking that a coyote would not be much of a match for a mother mt lion protecting her litter.