N.Y. Crossbows
 

After looking at the Feb. 6th issuse of outdoor new, i see the the state sales of license is down. Its time for the politicans see that they can increase sales by adding a crossbow season during our seasons. I hope that organizations that been fighting this , wake up that were all sports men and women and we would welcome this. Rich

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

License sales is probably the last reason why I would support crossbow hunting....

Why not early muzzleloader...or any number of other seasons..?

If it doesn't have merit as a season in its own right then there is no reason to create one....IMHO

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

License sales are down for many reasons....lack of crossbows is WAY down on the list.

Are you proposing a separate season for xbow, or are you suggesting they should be added to bowseason?

That makes a pretty big difference in the level of support you would have for your proposal.

Regardless, anyone with a lick of sense knows that xbows are not the magic bullet that will increase hunter numbers.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

My crossbow stance gets me shot at. I'm all for X-bow.

However, I'm not for it as an end-all cure, nor as a seperate season. I understand record maintenance is a big deal with bow hunters (I am a tri-season hunter).

I think X-bow will get more licenses sold, but not at the point of helping sales numbers. Instead I think it is a way to help us hunters. It's another tool to get people into the woods. I'd give it a try after seeing them in action in the south. Would it replace my bow hunting? NO.

I think the real advantage is in the crowd that doesn't bow hunt by skill, or ability. There are a large number of ex-bow hunters who simply can't pull the vertical bow back anymore (namely elders, and injured hunters, physically challenged {beyond the VERY STRICT NY X-Bow requirement now}).

For the records deal, make a seperate category. However, those overly concerned with records should look in the mirror a bit longer. Yes, records matter, but only to an extent. If it means getting my (hypothetical) grandpa in the woods for an extra couple days, then those records mean squat to me. Make a seperate category, and go from there I say.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

I'm guessing that you've never hunted with a crossbow , I own two of them and hunting with one most definitely requires most if not all of the skills required of vertical bows . Try one on targets , you'll see .

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

I think a better analogy would be: similar to shooting a gun at bow hunting ranges (adjustable sights/scope, trigger, "pre-loaded", but still need to have deer in close).

I don't have a big problem with crossbows. Woods are big enough for everybody. Everyone is alway quick to go to the ME ME ME mentality. I definitely think they should have a seprate license and it's own season (either part of archery - 1 week? or something similar. I personally wouldn't get one if they were legal - Have all I can do with bow, gun, & ML.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

my answer is to get more kids into it lower the bowhunting age to 12 and you will get more hunters hunting for life . imo crossbows should be allowed to older hunters that aren't comfortable pulling a compound back

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

How can you not see I'm talking about the actual pulling back of the bow while in an elevated stand, and maintaining the stance to shoot? That is the difference, there old elite one:D

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Eeks.

Well, somebody has to say it. Might as well be me.

It requires none of the skills required to shoot a vertical bow.

Hold - You hold a bow with one hand. Holding a crossbow is akin to holding a rifle.

Draw - You draw a bow in the presence of game. You have a limited timeframe with which to capitalize on the drawn bow. You draw the crossbow at the truck, with both hands and one foot...then you are good to go indefinitely.

Anchor - You better anchor with a bow. Your shoulder is the anchor with a crossbow.

Aim - Two planes of reference with a bow. Peer through a scope with a crossbow - just like your gun!

Release - Whether it be fingers or a release, technique matters with a bow. Crossbow - just like a gun (again)

Follow Through - critical with a bow. Irrelevant with a crossbow.

Crossbows require absolutely no archery skill. Sorry if that offends anyone.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

thesource,

I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER!

THANK YOU!!!
J-Bow

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Well when they make crossbows legal, they will find that licence sales will still be down. They legalized rifles, scopes on muzzleloaders and that didnt seem to increase sales. What will be next? Spotlights and nighttime hunting? I bet that will increasesales. How about no rules and regulations and kill all deer on site. Than we can compliain that there are no deer. Maybe we can blame it on the coyotes.It's crazy! It seems alot of guys are just looking for easyer ways to kill deer. Why?

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

I would agree with the lower hunting age.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

the last thing i want is more hunters in the woods come bow season with crossbows. one of the reasons i went to bow hunting was the fact that the deer aren't spooked and there's less people in the woods at that time. lets face it, hunting is a dieing sports. average age of a new york hunter is around 49 ish. video games and Internet are the future. and to tell you the truth i love it. more animals to hunt and less hunters to screw up your hunt. i love hunting and love to go out with my friends and cousin, but the last thing i want to see is mobs of hunters all over the place pushing the deer to go nocturnal. and i don't see hunting licenses going up since deer harvest numbers have been going down. not necessarily because theres less deer but because theres less land to hunt on. i can't tell you how the farm country out by me has developed. houses are popping up all over and no one wants a hunter around there house considering the family who bought it is most likely not into hunting.just my opinion fellas and the way i see the future unfolding for us hunters.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

If I do a rough sort of weapons beginning with long bow and ending with rifle and place them in order of advantages I come up with...

long bow
recurve
compound
cross bow
muzzle loader
hand gun
shot gun
rifle

I'd place thex-bow slightly above the compound and way below the muzzle loader. So what's all the fuss? The x-bow is just another weapon. Certaily sport hunting is big enough to accomodate it. If legal would the deer herd be suddenly be wiped out?Of course not. Hunters would simply have another choice. I can't see any disadvantage to that at all. After all nobody would be forcing anybody to use one. Theonlyquestion for mewould be when. Separate season, bow season, only use it in the fire arms season? That to me is a reasonable debate (I'd vote for during archery). Whether or not it should be allowed isn't IMO. As far as I'm concerned, just about any argument thatcan be used to say no to the x bow could be used to say no to the compound.

I think most that oppose the x-bow simply wouldn't want to do it themselves but why they want to stop others from ejoying it is, other than for simply selffish reasons,beyond me. If I'm in the woods hunting with my compound, how do I hurt the guy hunting with a long bow and how am I hurt by a guy hunting with a x bow?

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

So using your logic, the recurve and the comound should be made illegal leaving only the long bow, thus significantly reducing the number of hunters "at that time" and you would be even happier. Right?

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

i would vote muzzle loader, but i would slide the xbow up on your list closer to muzzle loader. i dont the specifications for fps of them and all that technical stuff. Just looking at how its used, it is closer to a gun than a bow.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

That makes sense. I was thinking more about the range rather than how it is used.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Yup just like you've tried on another forum, without much success.
Unless ya got 3 hands its kind of hard to hold a vertical bow with 2 hands and still be able to shoot it.
Unless you have the weapon shouldered and are already aiming, movement of the weapon which can alert game is a must.
If you shoot a crossbow like a rifle, you also anchor with your cheek against the stock. Regardless of the weapon used, multiple anchor points of reference are essencial for constant accuracy.
The only additional pointof reference would be centering within a peep, otherwise you just put sight pin or crosshairs on target.
Punching the trigger affects your shot regardless of whether the arrow is shot from a vertical bow or a crossbow, or even a firearm.
Drop either type of bow, or lift your head to peek and shot placement will be affected.
Crossbows have the same killing range as vertical bows.
Crossbows kill in the same fashion as vertical bows.
Crossbow usage requires accurate yardage judging just like vertical bows.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

jIMMY THE FOOT, YOU SHOULD SEE SOME FORM OF INCREASE, BECAUSE US OLD FARTS THAT BEEN HUNTING IN YOUR WOODS FOR YEARS, WHEN YOU WERE JUST A DREAM IN YOUR DADS JEWELS, WILL COME BACK TO THE SPORT WE LOVE BUT HAVE A HARD TIME DOING WITH REGULAR EQUIPMENT. HOPE FULLY SEE YOU ALL IN THE WOODS. RICH

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A08303

Know it,Love it,Promote it!
To do otherwise like the NYS bowhunter asso. is wrong and canabalistic of our great love.The more we bicker about the means of utlizingour heritage,the more devided we become.It seems like folks are afraid of a massive influx of crossbows into archery season,and that justis plain stupid.To deny handicap folks the right to choose,is beyond stupid.I urge ALL sportsmen and woman to take a stand,and if ya cant help each other,at least help those who truley need it!

IRONHORSE
BLESS THE WILDERNESS

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

C'mon Tim - if you want to bring it, you gotta bring it.

3 hands? Gimme a break.

Shouldering=drawing? Anchor your cheek = anchor point? anyone who bowhunts and gunhunts knows you are full of it.

Don't understand the physics behind 1 plane vs 2 plane sighting? Look it up.

None of the attributes you ramble about at the end of your tirade have anything to do with the archery skills required to shoot a bow. Draw. Anchor. Hold. Aim. Release. Follow Through.

You must do these things to evn fire a bow, let alone shoot one accurately.

Crossbow = point and shoot.

NY does not need croosbows.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

I think that lack of land and over hunted lands discourage young people to get into it. The ending real estate boom changed the Catskill region from quiet towns to booming cities. Most land that was unposted now have new yellow signs all over the place. The only thing I see young generation doing is riding ATVs all over the State land legally or illegally. Neversink Unique Area is perfect example. Last time I was hunting there, 15 kids showed up on quads , spooked everything and just when it got quiet again, other 4 showed up. There are signs everywhere “ No Motorized Vehicles” but hey they don't care. DEC told me to deal with it since they can't stop it.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Source,You sir or mam,are exactly what I mean by eating ourheritage from the inside out.I suppose you would of had issues with hunting with a spear some years back?Does it interfere with your own personal bowhunting season that maybe 2 folks have crossbows in your area?,does it inhibit your ability to search,scout and find deer before season?Do you feel threatened?Do crossbows scare the hell out of you as an unfair advantage?To what?Your skill,or the fact that you dont have the skill to take the prize yourself?You antis are all the same,eat the young at the exspense of your personal preference to hunting,be it traditional or compound.Sad to say the least,and surley the demise of us all as a whole.As a 30 + year veteran of hunting trapping and fishing,I find it appauling how some self centeredhunters react to the perpetuation of our heritage.

As far as the point and shoot comment at the end of your rant...what exactly is it you do with your traditional or compound?

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Ironhorse -

You can't say "heritage" and "crossbow" in the same sentence, at least not in NY state.

I do not believe crossbows belong in bow season because they do not operate like a bow.

You can agree or disagree (and I really don't care which you decide to do), but do not lecture me that refusing crossbows will be the demise of us all.

I am not anti - anything, and I resent the implication.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

You can go around the subject 4 times,and its still the same.Crossbows are and always have been a valid and great hunting impliment.I did not call you persay,an anti,BUT,if you cant see the upside of promoting a device thats been around as long as it has been,then I dont know what your point is.Give me a reason,a real one,why crossbows are a threat.The truth is ,noone can,only ramble unfair this and my season that.Its depramental to ourheritage as a whole to deny ANY sportsman or woman the abilty to utilize a proven big game,small game device.Its a crossbow,not a death ray.


ps HERITAGE means to me our outdoor love and use of nature,natural renewable resource,taking of game by any realistic and accurate means according to ability.Any questions?bless the wildnerness

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Bowhunting heritage would be all that, plus the added qualifier that you must use a bow. Crossbows have no part in NY bowhunting heritage.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Once again,you wont answer the questions,and refuse to show ANY logical reason for your relentless denial of crossbow useage for anyone,including handicap folks save for your "Im a traditionalist" attitude.Ill bet you threw a fit when inline muzzleloading came about.30+ years of hunting and trapping have tought me one thing,if nothing else coprehensable to yourself and others with your elite attitude,that the real sportsman and woman of this state,support hunting to it fullist,that means opportunity for all ethical hunting impliments,not just your way.You sir or mam,are a cannible of our heritage.SHAME

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Would anybody have a problem with allowing xbow use during the mz and regular firearms season? I suggest this is a good way to start. If the interest is there and the popularity grows, who knows? The only reason we don't have an early mz season in NY is because of the political clout of the bowhunters relative to the mz'ers. If the xbow enthusiasts are content to get their proverbial "foot in the door" I think it would just be a matter of time before it would be legal during the regular archer season.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Just a little history lesson. The xbow is historically not considered to be a superior weapon to the longbow. After it's invention in 200 B.C.it never suplanted the longbow in warfare, it was simply added as "another" weapon that with it came advantages and disadvantages. Although more accurate in the hands of an inexperienced archer, relative to a skilled longbowman the xbow was a shorter range weapon, less accurate and could not be fired nearly as fast as the longbow. It's main advantage was the ability to fire a "bolt" with enough force to penetrate armor. As far as heritage? The xbow was carried with the first settlers in Jamestown Va in 1607. It was used for both hunting and defense. Now I don't know anything specific to xbows inNY but I'd be suprised if the Dutch didn't bring them along as well when they firstbegan settlingour fine state in the early 1600's. The xbow is every bit as much a part of our "heritage" as the mz.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

First let me say I do not think crossbows would greatly increase the number of tag sales in NY. WHat would is only speculation.

What i do agree, is that crossbows should be allowed. Don't own one, but why should we limit another method of hunting. Whether we should hunt at same time as archery I dont know, maybe more along ML season or gun season, but I think we should.

I said it on another post here at hunting net, to be honest, we are playing into the hands of the anti-hunting folks; they are probably laughing at us fighting amongst ourselves, because fighting ourselves we are not fighting them.......

I do not see any reason not to allow it, like there was no reason 30 years ago, and yes I was there, to outlaw the compound bow, and yes I am sure others can tell more, but they did not want to allow the use of compound bows. I would further guess that the ones fighting the issue of crossbows werent there or too young to remember and don't remember that the weapon they now use was very controversial.

Any way, I think it should be and we need to stop fighting others. And the fight against crossbows is why I will never join the NY Bowhunters.[:@]

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

I agree with that, and actually would support crossbows for any season other than bowseason......

If it weren't for comments like this:

Too bad boys. You want to hunt in bowseason - go buy a bow and learn to use it. You will get no help from me in your quest for the easy way out.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Once againyour "my season" has come out.Put all together.northern and southern zones,archery is the longest season,with 5 weeks in the southern zone alone.Not to mention the special 'late archery season".Plus you have the opportunity during regular.How would you feel about firearm hunters scoffing you out of the regular season?As far as the get a bow statement,like Ive said before,Ive been bowhunting for over 30 years,so thats a mute point.I was long bow hunting when compounds were a fight as JL stated.I have not now nor ever will have a problem with a crossbow hunter,hunting on my land or elswhere during regular archery season.IT IS A BOW,NOT A FIREARM.And JL,thank you for your service to this country,SALUTE!I see your from Fort Drum,any chance Ya know Scott Wooley from Fatmans Choppers?lol...Thanks Sylvan for your intellect and positive attitude in this very important matter.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Tsource i hate to tell you, the archery season does not belong to just to you archers, its forall of us , its time to stop all this xbow BS. I,m a archery hunter for 40+yrs, my body dos'nt like me any more so i made the switch, its not as easy as you guys think if your a walker. The weight is about 8+lbs, clumsy to walk with if you hunt in the woods. This hunting tool is good to about max of 40yrds. then the arrows drop like a brick. I've hunted in illinois and ohio states that permit xbows and did not see other hunters than the ones i came with. Believe me we xbow hunters will not take over the woods, this can be a way for those that have problems will have another chance to do what they love. PLEASE STOP,TRYING TO STOP ME FROM DOING WHAT I LOVE--- YOU DO'NT KNOW ME. RICH

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Bless ya Rich,you and others including my good friend who was a lifelong bowhunter,and now suffers from MS are what made me fight this god awful battle.I see no reason what so ever,that folks such as yourself and others,cannot particapate in archery season once again.The current standerds for handicap usage are obismal to say the least.Compound with breathtube actuation is as Source so addimatly put it is aa cocking device.This is leagal,IF YOU QUALIFY.Therin lies the trouble.I urge yourself and other NYS hunter to contact the DEC and support 2 bills currently supporting Handicap usage of crossbows that the DEC are sleeping on again!
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A08303
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S04359

Its the right thing to do

Go here for ALL bills relating to crossbow in NYS:
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?by=k&qs=crossbow

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Ironhorse it is a pleasure to do what I do. As for the season, I agree it belongs to everyone. Where to fit the crossbow in doesnt matter, what matters if we keep fighting amongst oursleves, others win, like the ones who dont want hunting.

I really think some do not remember or were not around for the controversial compound, you know what if they had there way they would all be using traditional right now, not a fast, 80% let off bow!

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

I personnally don't feel anyone is trying to stop hunters from enjoying NYS archery seasons. There are means available for all to be able to enjoy archery season as it presently stands. www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/license/licdisable.html

Icouldn't possibly fully understand every individuals personal situation, especially the handicapped. Butif I personally was in that situation I'd do all I could to enjoy archery seasonin its presentstate. If it meant simply applying for a Modified Bow Permit (I'm not speaking of the harder to get Crossbow Permit)to put a draw locking device on the bow I was no longer able to pull back, then I'd do it if I enjoyed it that much. Especially seeing the crossbow is so much heavier, and bulky to carry around. It would seem a compound with a draw lock would be a better weapon for many handicapped persons. I cannot honestly say I wouldn't want the crossbow if I was handicapped. I personally have nothing against the weapon itself. In fact there might even be a place for it in NY woods. To be honest if the crossbow had its own season, not coinciding with another season I'd probably use one. But thats not what thePro crossbow people are working for. Why Not? It just appears to me many seem to feel the first and easiest answer is the crossbow, it'll solve everything. Noone ever mentions the present devices available to all that have limitedabilities to use present archery equipment.I do feel perhaps the DEC could lighten up on the qualifications for a special crossbow permit for those even with devices available for archery equipment cannot easily use those, and the crossbow is the only way to keep them in the archery woods. For those few I do feel bad for, and I'm sure circumstances do exist.
On the subject of all of usfighting amongstourselves as hunters, and feedingthe anti's. I don'tfall into that at all. I feel it shows how much we actually care for our hunting rights, and ethics. I feel its makes us stronger as a whole, and that we are policing within our own ranks, and beliefs. Its obvious we have rules, and ethics for a reason. We keep certain ethics amongst seasons becasue we all agree its the correct, and proper way to do things. We have seasons, and specific weapons amongthose seasons for that reason.If we go with the attitude everyone should have the right to hunt as they please. Then what are we really saying? Its ok to lower the very standards, and ethics we've lived by! Whats next? Rifles for small game turkey season's, we can use 22's for squirrels.Deer hunting at night, we can coyote & coon hunt at night. Why have a muzzleloader season at all, they're just another gunwith scopes! Heck while were at it, lets just have one big deer season thats open to whatever weapon you feel your hearts desire to use. Then maybe everyone will be satisfied, and we'll no longer fight amongst hunters!!!

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

let them in the more sports men and women the better.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

let's see then, maybe they can take a week AWAY from the bow hunters (of which I am one) and give it to the xbows. now how would that be???? stop being so selfish. the woods are there for everyone, not just bowhunters. i am sick of the me, me, me attitude (sounds a lot like the good ol NY Bowhunters propaganda - the woods are ours - stay out). if we try to work together, things would be better for all.

give xbows a 5, 7, 9 day season somewhere(a licensed season). beginning of bow, end of bow, whenever. i'm not going to beat down the doors to get them approved (not gonna fight tooth & nail against either), but if it happens, so be it. better to be proactive and work together than beat each other up over something that, in the big sceam of things isn'treally really worth fighting over

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

Typical of the response I'd expect from you Doughboy. Bark first, ask questions later.

I have no problems with crossbows in their own season. I would rather give up part of bowseason for crossbows than hunt concurrently. They are not bows, and those who carry them are not bowhunters. They are crossbow hunters - nothing wrong with that. Make the crossbow season exclusive and I would buy one and hunt with it.

To IronHorse and others:

I also have no problem with crossbows for the physically challenged. Its the physically able that bother me. Get off your butts, grab a bow, and hunt in bowseason to your heart's content.

Stop whining for an easier way to kill a deer.

RE: N.Y. Crossbows
 

thesource,
What is the difference to you if someone is sitting in a tree stand some distance away from you if they are using a longbow, recurve, compound or cross bow? Seriously, I just don't understand why you see it as a threat. Although I can't see myself ever using oneit wouldn't bother me at all if someone else in my hunting are was using it. Now I'll admit I haven't read all your posts on this thread so if you've already answered this then sorry but I would appreciate if you could explain it to me.