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Don't look like much room for deer or hunters in this Rendell and DCNR wild plan !!! Or am I reading it wrong?? [:@] lost horn

Public Meeting To Discuss ‘Wilds' Packs House
By Kimberley Hoak, Staff Reporter
Over 120 people attended a meeting last Wednesday night at the Coudersport American Legion Post 192 sponsored by the Potter County Visitor's Association, to hear about the “PA Wilds” initiative and its impact on Potter County.

Deputy Director of Tourism, Film and Marketing, J. Mickey Rowley was the keynote speaker. Also speaking were: Mike Krempasky, DCNR Deputy Director of Policy; Tony Lupino, DCNR State Park Regional Manager; Dana Crisp, DCNR Manager of the Outdoor Recreation Team; Chip Harrison, Park Manager Lyman Run State Park Complex; and Lisa Bainey, Park Manager of Sinnemahoning State Park.
David Brooks, Executive Director of PCVA opened the meeting by saying, “I have been told by our visitors from Harrisburg that this is the largest attended meeting of this kind, so far.”

Brooks acknowledged the attendance of the three Potter County Commissioners, Cathy Bowers, John Torok and Ken Wingo; State Representative Martin Causer; and, Debra Ponzer representing U.S. Representative John Peterson.

The meeting was intended to give an explanation of what the Wilds initiative is, and an update on what has been accomplished to date through the program.

The Pennsylvania Wilds initiative was introduced by Governor Ed Rendell in 2003 to “encourage the growth of tourism and related businesses in Northcentral Pennsylvania based on the significant outdoor experiences available on over 2.1 million acres of easily accessible public land in the region. The goal of this effort is to promote and protect the natural resources of the region”

6.5 million acres of land encompass the Wilds region and approximately 80 percent of that land is forestland.

27 state parks totalling 27,600 acres of land are included in the 12 county region.

Recreational assets within the Wilds region include:

€ approximately 1,800 overnight public camping sites;

€ over 1,800 miles of snowmobile trails;

€ over 1,500 miles of hiking trails;

€ 631 miles of cross country skiing trails; and

€ over 792 miles of equestrian trails.

Commissioner Wingo was the first speaker, and he acknowledged that a number of people were present to talk about ATV trails and issues involving reimbursement from the state for timber sales.

Wingo said no one was present from the State Forestry Department to address those issues at this meeting but added, “The County Planner attends regular meetings about this.” Wingo assured the audience that the issues were being discussed.

Mike Krempasky, Deputy Director of Policy for DCNR said the idea for the Wilds initiative “was not hatched in Harrisburg.”

“The suggestions came from the people in North Central Pennsylvania. When the Governor was on his campaign across Route 6, Teri Dennison and some others said, ‘There's a big opportunity here in Northern Pennsylvania,'” said Krempasky.

“They were right. The 12 counties comprising the Wilds have some of the most beautiful country in the state and in this nation,” he said.

Krempasky said in 2004 a Governor's task force was formed to bring the 12 counties' tourist promotion industries together to promote tourism to the area.

“This part of Pennsylvania is a very special place,” Krempasky said.

Krempasky said a Pennsylvania Planning Team is being formed which will be comprised of county planners and local development districts to determine how growth in the area may occur as well as what impact the growth may have on the area.

“There is a collaborative effort being made to pull together and work together to make this initiative work. We are trying to promote the whole range of possibilities - all along the areas of the initiative. We are going to be providing greater access to public lands,” Krempasky said.

Noting that park facilities needed upgrading to accomodate a projected increase in visitors, improvements in restroom facilities at Ole Bull, Denton Hill and Kettle Creek have been completed,

Tony Lapino, who manages all of the State Parks within the Wilds initiative told the audience, “It's a great opportunity to improve our state parks. Our parks in this area were from the CCC era... this is the only area in the state that has received money for the infrastructure of our parks. It is absolutely fantastic.”

In referencing the Lyman Run Dam project Lapino said, “I've been here for 20 years and for us to get $18 million was almost impossible. I am ecstatically excited about it.”

The dam is approximately 67 percent completed at this time, and Lyman Run Lake is targeted for a grand re-opening in the spring of 2007, said park manager Chip Harrison.

Harrison also noted that “Cherry Springs has really grabbed national attention. Even National Geographic has recognized the Dark Skies at Cherry Springs.”

He said a $2.1 million visitor center and observation domes are on the horizon for Cherry Springs. Remote control domes may be installed that can be accessed by universities or amateur astronomers from their home computers.

Harrison said it is his hope to develope other activities at Cherry Springs, not just astronomy.

“We are going to be developing a new snowmobile trail head - and next year everyone will have access to a heated restroom,” he said.

Harrison said he expects to have “many new tourists” passing through the new visitors center and planetarium planned for Cherry Springs.

He also said through the Wilds initiative, Denton Hill State Park has replaced their sewage treatment plant.

Mickey Rowley said that Pennsylvania is the sixth largest media spending state in the nation and that the Wilds initiative has been well publicized.

“Extensive promotion has been done advertising the attributes of the Pennsylvania Wilds. A very successful television campaign was done featuring Governor Rendell, and extensive printed material has been distributed.”

Rowley said the cooperation he has received from Potter County has been “terrific.”

“I met David Brooks in 2003 - he is a terrific advocate for Potter County. I have been in Potter County 10 or 12 times for meetings about the Wilds, and your county commissioners have been to all of the meetings.

“My compliments to the county commissioners and to David Brooks,” Rowley said.

During a question and answer period following the meeting, a number of issues not addressed by the speakers were raised by local residents.

Harry Fox, of Odin, said, “What about the millions of dollars of logs that were harvested and sold - millions of dollars go out (of this area) compared to what little bit comes back.”

Fox also said the air strip at Cherry Springs “could been paved and continued to be used as an airstrip.”

Cathy Fox raised the issue of hunting in Potter County, saying it is fast becoming a dying sport and that the deer population has been seriously diminished.

“The state has ruined hunting for Potter County. You have completely failed to address the issue of hunting in your plans,” said Fox.

Krempasky responded to Kathy Fox saying, “We didn't come here tonight to talk about deer management. Hunting has changed over the last 20 - 30 years. If you look at the outdoor recreational activities - hunting is not one of them.”

“Kyaking, hiking, bird watching, etc., are activities that all encompass more than anyone hunting,” said Krempasky.

After hearing the public comments about hunting and the deer herd population, Commissioner Wingo took the podium and said, “Everyone is concerned about what you brought up. I volunteer to get the Game Commission to come up here if we can get a group together like this.”

“I'm a firm believer that we are over-hunting the deer here,” Wingo said.

Carl Kio, of Coudersport, expressing serious concern, questioned drilling procedures in the Allegany National Forest and the impact the drilling may be having on the environment.

“National Forests should be considered national treasures,” said Kio. “It's absolutely disgusting what's going on in the Allegany National Forest - they're ruining it. The sludge is running everywhere from the drilling, even into the road... I can provide pictures.”

Lupino said Kio's concerns were an issue he would like to hear more about and asked Kio to speak with him after the meeting

Members of local snowmobile clubs questioned issues involving finances for rebuilding bridges used by snowmobilers.

In response, Lupino said, “DCNR is committed to snowmobiling as a winter activity. I make the request every year to get the funds to fix the bridges. We intend to keep working on this.”

Rick Jones, of Genesee, said “Get off the deer hunting thing - hunting is something that is dying out. I've had an idea for a few years that could help the bed and breakfasts, the campgrounds, and the economy.”

Jones said promoting a “wildflower week-end” concept was something for the Wilds committee to consider.

“One of the things this county has is wildflowers, from May to November,” said Jones.

“You could also promote birdwatching, photography, and long-range shooting,” said Jones.

At the end of the meeting, Marty Causer said, “We support tourism - but don't forget about the people who live here; 48 percent of the county is owned by the Commonwealth. Millions of dollars are going out of this county each year in timber sales. Local people pay more than their share”

Causer said he is “very opposed” to Pennsylvania's current rate of in-lieu-of-tax payents and the rates for enrollment in “clean and green.”

Causer has introduced legislation in the Pennsylvania House to raise the in-lieu-of-tax payments to counties.

“I will keep working until we get that passed,” he told the group.

In closing, Causer told the group representing the Wilds initiative that he supported their efforts their work to bring more tourism to the area.

“Just don't forget the people who live here,” he said.

Your first statements easy, vote fast eddy out!!!!

All the time I spend in Clearfield and Tioga, even Potter I'm yet to see enough birdders and flower sniffers to make an impact on anything, You do have your hikers and cayackers on Pine Creek I guess. IMO I don't think you read it wrong, I believe they don't want to address the deer issue or don't care.

No you read it right.Rendell and his clowns from Philly don't wanna recognize hunting as just as soon throw it out the door.That's what we get for electing some liberal from Philly.
As for the state forests the hunters have lost the battle...it's over.You better find some private land or maybe SGl's because the DCNR doesn't have hunting in their plans.

It's easy to see by Krempasky's comments that they have absolutely NO appreciation for what the deer hunter has brought to the table over the years, and how local business plans for and depends on the hunter's dollar. Fools like this guy need to be removed from places where they can do the rest of us harm.
I agree totally----"Fast Eddie" and his arrogant know-nothing experts need to be voted out before they riunwhat's left. When's the last time you saw or talked to a birdwatcher or kayaker who was going to their camp for the weekend??

Never.Never saw any birders in the woods either.I hope Rendell gets voted out.I'll vote for anybody but him.
Hunters all across the state better get off their heels and open their eyes.I see too many hunters taking the defensive approach and it's not working.Hunters use the state lands more then these other groups.By a wide wide margin.Yet Rendell's DCNR doesn't even acknowledge us as a recreation.We're losing.

Sounds like they wanna make thousands of acresinto fenced off Middle Creeks everywhere!!!

Yep, I think we have lost the battle the flower kids from the 1960ies and 70ies are running the show now, we all know fast Eddie hates guns and it don't look like he cares too much for hunters. :(
WIPE OUT THE DEER YOU WIPE OUT THE HUNTERS, THAT IS THE PLAN. [:@] [:'(]

I just e-mailed DCNR with concerns about the Pa Wilds initiative and Krempasky's comments concerning hunters at the Coudersport meeting. Let's see what this brings--------

At least there masks are finally comming off for everyone to see!!!

Man, this is sad....[:o]Even though I'm down here in Virginia, I wanted to offer my condolences to you guys. Pennsylvania was always a deer hunters haven for years and years when I was a kid. I remember hearing stories of all the monster deer, and how small towns would almost shut down on the first day of hunting season, 'cause everyone would be out hunting. Now fast foward 35-40 years and look at what has happend to your state!

The same thing is happening in upstate NY (where I grew up as a kid). If we want to see hunting continue onto the next generation and generation after that, we have to band together and let our voices be heard!

“One of the things this county has is wildflowers, from May to November,” said Jones.

“You could also promote birdwatching, photography, and long-range shooting,” said Jones.

Do any of these activities generate anywhere near the level of revenue , including Pittman-Robertson tax monies , that hunting does ? Do any of them actually pay for their fun little activities at all ? Flower sniffers and bird botherers usually balk at the suggestion of doing that . I'm with Butch , I feel for you too . [&o]

I work in the state forests all summer long. I'm yet to see a birdwatcher or flower sniffer in the last 5 years. Occasionally I'll run into a hiker or mountain biker. But that's just about it.

Rendell was a big loser in the NC counties. Voters didn't buy into his garbage, but we are getting it shoved down our throats anyway.

This is a sad happening for us.

Good job PA.I also e-mailed them awhile back.

Butch and Kevin thank-you for your support.Our DCNR or forestry holds the most amount of state land to hunt on.But with their recent comments it seems they don't want to recognize hunting on those lands anymore.
In the last presidential election James Carville from the democratic national committee described PA like this."There's Pittsburg on one end Philly on the other and Alabama inbetween.What he calls Alabama is most of the state but little population.In that so called Alabama is our big woods which used to be our traditional deer hunting.And you're right these areas used to be the hot spots for deer known throughout the country.But Ed Rendell got elected hired his homeboy from Philly to take charge of the forestry.The guy sure doesn't hunt.Our problem right now is that Philly is running our show.Sort of like Clinton did to the western and midwestern states with logging and hunting.City slickers taking charge of habitat,state forests,deer populations,etc.Their goal is to promote hiking,boating,atv riding,bird watching,etc.Bring the yuppies out to the forests.Problem is I never run into any of these people when I'm out there.
On the other hand when the deer hunting was good the woods was loaded with hunters.I'm interested in knowing why him and his boys want to exclude us.The state with a million hunters.But then again I know why,the DCNR is becoming anti hunting plain and simple.

i agree Rendell sucks.. and i didnt vote for him and i wont vote next time.. but, Lynn Swann???? whats going on.im not to sure what he knows but i cant wait to hear what he has to say. anyone that doesnt know Swann is most likely going to be the (R) going up against Rendell

I agree, I would like to here more of Swan's plans and proposals, I usually pay attention to what candidate's discuss before I vote, but I have to admit on this one it's Anyone but Rendell IMO.

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I'm interested in knowing why him and his boys want to exclude us

Hunters are a decreasing population while other outdoor activities are increasing. It only makes marketing sense. If I owned a business in the area I would want business year around, not just some on/off days when hunting seasons start.

T, I think the thing that frustrates some hunters is how many birdwatchers ect. have you seen, me none for the most part. The problem is what have they done for conservation around the state that compares with what hunters have done??? Will they start paying for their activities?? IMO I smell a rat in these folks.

Local business owners wanting business all year round for other activities is fine, but as I said above, why ditch hunting??

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The problem is what have they done for conservation around the state that compares with what hunters have done?

Since when is conservation allowing deer numbers so high that the habitat is destroyed. We need to open out eyes to other wildlife besides the ones that we hunt. That is being a conservationalist. Yes, we as hunters have built up a large chunk of land in game lands but a lot of land has also been donated by individual and other conservation organizations, like The Nature Conservancy, that has put up the $ needed to buy the land then turned it over to the GC. Hunters need to recognize we are stewards of the land not farmers of deer.

Very true Todd but the guy's response was irresponsible and pompous.Fortunately the guys from DCNR that I know are genuinely concerned about the habitat and the deer and they're trying to do the right thing.

I said nothing about deer numbers, my question is so why still exclude hunters in their little plan?? I'd be fine sharing the land and I still believe we were always better stewarts of the land especially money wise.

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ORIGINAL: T_in_PA3

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I'm interested in knowing why him and his boys want to exclude us

That's fine T,I don't blame them for promoting year round activities.But some keep using a couple of days as the useage for hunting.Archery season usually starts the first week in October.There are more archery hunters on these state lands then boaters,birders,hikers,and skiers put together.From October 1 through the end of December there's more hunters in the woods then any of those groups.Of coarse bear and deer rifle reach the peak.Then there's a month of spring gobbler hunting.So basically the state forests are being used by hunters four months out of the year.Never once ran into a bird watcher out there.I see a few hikers in the summer or fall but their numbers don't even come close to the hunters.The DCNR has made a statement that hunting is no longer a recreation.Some of you may not use the state forests to hunt on and don't think this will affect you.But when a state agency like the DCNR is making comments like this it's time to wake up!This is a dangerous situation for all of us as hunters.And I'm like the snowmobile riders,birders,flower sniffers,hikers,atv riders,etc.I'm interested in my thing and that is hunting.This is not a good situation when our governor and the people he appointed are dismissing hunting as a form of recreation when there's dang near 1 million hunters in the state.It can and will affect all of us down the road if we don't get off our heels and wake up.

Thats my Point T, what Germain said, he just said better then I did. Its dangerous some of these comments they're making and I as a hunter take offense to them and as I said before I don't think enough of these birders and such use the lands for recreation that often.

I feel that the problem here is the fact that several individuals in powerful positions within the DCNR have made some ouylandish remarks, and need to be held accountable for them. To even think, let alone publicly decry that hunting is not to be considered an outdoor activity in State forests and State parks shows the total lack of knowledge these people possess.
I ask you to take a ride through Mosshannon State Forest The day before deer season, and take a note of the number of camps full of guess who----- those declining hunters they talk about. It's just so much baloney that we can't believe it.Bear season is a big draw also----- ever driven past the gate to the left on Shagger's Inn Rd. the first morning of bear season? Spring and fall turkey seasons fill the woods with those absent, declining, on-the-way-out hunters.
I guess it's just the pure, unadulterated audacity that the aforementiond individuals express that boggles my mind. They need reigned in.

The times when birders are likely to be in the woods would be during spring, summer, and fall. Any conflict would be during the fall migration. Frankly, I don't see a problem with multiple use. I am in the woods during most of the fall from the beginning of September through the first week or so of January and have not seen a bird watcher in the past ten years, and I seldom see other hunters. This argument that the woods are dangerous to birders simply does not hold water. While I don't mind sharing the woods, I see no reason to shorten hunting seasons because of it. Let the others who use the woods be careful just like I am during hunting season.

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ORIGINAL: T_in_PA3

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I'm interested in knowing why him and his boys want to exclude us

????????????? I can't believe any true hunter could go along with these nincapoots !!!!

T, one more thing I want to add is you said we need to be good stewards in the name of habitat, well what about our great higher ups making these remarks, why can't they come up with anything other then make deer numbers unhuntable, then say its not a recreation. I'd be glad to work together, but right now it doesn't appear that way!!! Look where we are at now, Just keep letting Philly run the show, yeehaw!!!

Actuallyturkeyhunter I don't mind sharing with the other groups either.Afterall the state forest land was set aside for recreation.Now the gamelands are a different story.Hunting should always be the main function on there.
But I have to say I've never seen a birdwatcher in the woods.The way everybody keeps mentioning them these a days you would think they are everywhere.I honestly believe Rendell and his appointees from Philly are trying to diminish or in time prevent hunting on state forests.Their comments lately sure appear that way.
He'll never get my vote.I'll pass these statements along to other hunters.
Ed Rendell,the anti hunting governor of the state with 1 million hunters.

It is absolutly sickening what is happening to hunting in this part of PA. I used to live on Pine Creek in Pine Creek Valley. They already ruined a lot for hunters there when they put in the Pine Creek Trail. I still live in the area but now all I hear is more and more liberals and yuppies coming in to change our way of life. VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!

Tell ya what Otter,it sounds like they want to turn Potter county into the Poconos.

Watch out Otter, next thing you know they'll fence off everything and then you'll have New yorkers bussing in to take pictures from the outside. Liberals love that sort of nature viewing.

Yeah, parking lots, nature trails, five star hotels, and french restaurants. No gain for the locals, they'll get jobs alright, five dollar an hour jobs. The only hunters that'll be able to afford it will be the politicians, their lawyers and bankers.

Do I sound a bit peeved?

Yeh you do and it is nice to hear you sound off on this topic especially being your from their!!!

T--- Let me relate a little story to you about who some of the other people are who are using State Forest lands-----
Several years ago, on the first day of Bear season, I picked a nice spot to watch. I could also see part of the Quehanna Trail from my post. Lo, and behold, about 10:30 that morning, what do I see, but several adults leading a line of young kids thru the woods. As if this wasn't dangerous enough, several of the youngsters were dressed in dark clothing. I couldn't believe what I was seeing!!!
It was quite evident that they either had no idea that it was bear season, or didn't care. Regardless of their thought patterns, it shows a total lack of either basic knowledge of what's happening at the time as far as hunting goes, or total disregard and distain for the hunters and established game seasons.
If these are the type of people that we are supposed to share the woods with, things are looking grim. About the next thing that will happen is that some hunter will be arrested for discharging a firearm and scaring the daylights of some hiker that was in the area.
We've got a job in front of us. Let's get started doing SOMETHING before it's too late-------

That's just one more reason to support the PGC.The all but banned mountain bikes and horses from most SGL's around here.You can stay on some of the main roads but most of the trails are off limits.Ispent the day with a WCO in Elk county this year and he was enforcing that law.He talked to several mountain bike riders that were in areas they weren't supposed to be.He didn't cite anyone but he was out there making contact.

The guys complaining about the PGC better wake up.the worst thing that could happen is for the PGC to fall under DCNR'S control.If you care about this sport,you should be supporting a lisence fee increase and the PGC.We need the PGCmore than ever right now.We also need a new governor.

I agree Doug.My problem is with the DCNR and their anti hunting statements.Don't get me wrong,I don't disagree with everything the PGC does but I do support them.But they have to stay focused for the hunters and not let non hunters start to dictate policy.I didn't say they shouldn't listen to their concerns but not go along with every agenda they push.

Agreed, nice post Doug.

As far as the bear season story, those people had as much of a right to be there as you did. Maybe someone should have asked if they were aware of the current bear season taking place. They might have not known and appreciated the heads-up.

T--- How in the world could someone with average intelligence not been able to figure out it was a big hunting day??? There were orange clad hunters everywhere!! Gunshots were heard. This group was seen by lots of hunters. Ray Charles could have figured this one out.
My point is that they probably didn't even bother to check to see if any hunting season was in. Even after they found out hunting was going on, they didn't cancel their outing,continuing to endanger the young, non-orange dressed kids. Totally oblivious to the danger they were in. Non hunters. Nocommon sense. Our future partners.
Yes, you are correct--- they had as much right to be there as I.

Not everyone has grown up as a hunter or around hunters like we have. I work with people that don't know hunting. They don't oppose it but they don't know much about it. Every season I get asked questions on different topics about hunting.

We are pretty judgemental of others instead of taking the time to see what is really going on.

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ORIGINAL: T_in_PA3

Agreed, nice post Doug.

As far as the bear season story, those people had as much of a right to be there as you did. Maybe someone should have asked if they were aware of the current bear season taking place. They might have not known and appreciated the heads-up.

So it's ok for the general public to go in the woods wearing anything they want to but the hunters must wear orange, why have the orange law ?[:-]