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RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Germain,I alsohave a problem with some of the comments we're hearing from DCNR.Just when Istarted having a little faith,they let us down again.I'll go on record to support themany at DCNR that do care about hunting but some of these guys need to go.
Nothing irritates me more than to see hunters get the short end of the stick.That's exactly why we need to back the PGC,even if we don't agree with every one of their policies.Hunting as we know it will cease to exist if DCNR gets to call the shots. |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
[:-][:-]
ORIGINAL: DougE Germain,I alsohave a problem with some of the comments we're hearing from DCNR.Just when Istarted having a little faith,they let us down again.I'll go on record to support themany at DCNR that do care about hunting but some of these guys need to go. Nothing irritates me more than to see hunters get the short end of the stick.That's exactly why we need to back the PGC,even if we don't agree with every one of their policies.Hunting as we know it will cease to exist if DCNR gets to call the shots. |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Yeah--- Just give that one some serious thought------it ought to scare the dickens out of you---!!!
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RE: Pa. "Wilds"
More on the Wilds......
Wilds ‘train wreck' happening' - To the Editor: Having attended the recent presentation on the Pennsylvania Wilds Initiative, I believe it is important for people to be aware of the largest impact to Potter and Tioga counties which is unknown to most citizens. Being involved in farming and land use issues both here and statewide, it is clear to me that a train wreck of sorts is now already occurring in both counties regarding land development for recreation property sales to the tourist market. Already, there are hundreds of small lot subdivisions around state lands being prepared for marketing to the tourism group by local developers. Neither county has a regional zoning plan such as Lycoming County has to plan for our future land use. The recently enacted Comprehensive Land Use Plans are only voluntary guides and developers are not abiding by these documents, and in fact many are openly opposed to any land use restrictions as stated at last Augusta Tioga County Commissioners meeting by some local developers. A new local real estate paper called “Mountain Home,” targeting the above tourist market contains an article by a local developer acknowledging the possible Pocono-like development boom which is likely to occur. This will drive up assessed property values in both counties and real estate tax increases will drive many of us off the land as time goes by. Farming is especially vulnerable to this because of the land needed to farm. This is like a snowball effect as more of us owning land, with relatively lower incomes sell out because of higher taxes. Tioga County is currently working on a county zoning plan but a lot of damage will be done until it is enacted into law and it is unknown as yet how it will address this recreation property development boom which is already occurring. Potter County's Commissioners are responsible for initiating the required land use policy, and have not so yet. State money is available to hire an experienced consultant, as was done with the Comprehensive Plan, to create the best ordinance for today's land use demands. If this is not done today, within five to ten years, the area will be developed beyond any predictions and our costs to live here significantly higher. The Pennsylvania Wilds Initiative, colliding with 1950s land use policies, is a train wreck already happening. Bill Miller Westfield |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
ORIGINAL: High Country Kid More on the Wilds...... Wilds ‘train wreck' happening' - To the Editor: Having attended the recent presentation on the Pennsylvania Wilds Initiative, I believe it is important for people to be aware of the largest impact to Potter and Tioga counties which is unknown to most citizens. Being involved in farming and land use issues both here and statewide, it is clear to me that a train wreck of sorts is now already occurring in both counties regarding land development for recreation property sales to the tourist market. Already, there are hundreds of small lot subdivisions around state lands being prepared for marketing to the tourism group by local developers. Neither county has a regional zoning plan such as Lycoming County has to plan for our future land use. The recently enacted Comprehensive Land Use Plans are only voluntary guides and developers are not abiding by these documents, and in fact many are openly opposed to any land use restrictions as stated at last Augusta Tioga County Commissioners meeting by some local developers. A new local real estate paper called “Mountain Home,” targeting the above tourist market contains an article by a local developer acknowledging the possible Pocono-like development boom which is likely to occur. This will drive up assessed property values in both counties and real estate tax increases will drive many of us off the land as time goes by. Farming is especially vulnerable to this because of the land needed to farm. This is like a snowball effect as more of us owning land, with relatively lower incomes sell out because of higher taxes. Tioga County is currently working on a county zoning plan but a lot of damage will be done until it is enacted into law and it is unknown as yet how it will address this recreation property development boom which is already occurring. Potter County's Commissioners are responsible for initiating the required land use policy, and have not so yet. State money is available to hire an experienced consultant, as was done with the Comprehensive Plan, to create the best ordinance for today's land use demands. If this is not done today, within five to ten years, the area will be developed beyond any predictions and our costs to live here significantly higher. The Pennsylvania Wilds Initiative, colliding with 1950s land use policies, is a train wreck already happening. Bill Miller Westfield |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Iwatched it happen in the Poconos and unless I move further west I reckon it might happen here.[:@][:@][:@][:@]
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RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Hey thanks to some of you guyes I understand ole Krempasky is feeling a little heat. ;)
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RE: Pa. "Wilds"
People can't have it both ways. While some are complaining about DCNR over-promoting hunting in state forests and wanting more DMAP tags, others are nowcomplaining about DCNR being opposed to hunting?
DCNR sent one of their policy flacks to Potter Countyto speak to the Potter Co. Visitors Assn. about the PA Wilds program. It's supposed to help rural areas promote tourism of the sort they may not currently be benefitting from, most of which will not conflict with hunting due to the seasonal differences. Such ruralareas are already hip to hunting and fishing tourism and have been for generations, which is probably why hunting is not a part of the PA Wilds program. When Ms Fox accused the DCNR mope of not including hunting, he gave anhonest answer: "I didn't come here to talk about hunting." Big surprise, since he actually wasn't there to talk about hunting, but to offer other avenues for local businesses to venture into, primarily during warmer months. There are also existing programsto promotewinter activities like skiing, snowmobiling, etc. As for a Poconos-like situation coming to pass in Potter or Tioga counties, there's a few major obstacles to that: Distance and transportation. The Poconos is within an hour or two of much of urbanNY/NJ. Any way you cut it, Potter/Tioga is a three or four hour cruise from those population centers. Don't know Bill Miller, but my cabin is within 7 miles of Westfield. It's close to beinga dying town and will only get worse now that their largest local employer is closed and several others are on their last legs. People that live in the area either drive several hours each day to work, subsist on meager wages or are on welfare. Doubt many are opposed to the possibility of more jobs in the area. Those that own vacation homes there may not like the idea though, but then they don't live there year 'round. As for land use regulations, it's true that something needs to be done in both counties to prevent greedy developers from carving up paradise into one acre lots. Plus, I'dhate tosee elderly farmers taken advantage of and get stuck with gobs of flatlander cash for land they no longer need. :eek: Those poor folks have had to struggle for years without zoning permits, building permits and such other amenities those of us take for granted that live in the more populated parts of the state. "My" rural township nowhas more restrictive regs than just a few years ago. Some of my elderly neighbors have even had to scrounge up thousands of dollars to upgrade their septic systems to sand mounds, now that regulations have been established at the order of the commonwealth. It's the price of progress, apparently. |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Let's face facts. The Pennsylvania Game Commission, under the leadership of the previous Executive Director (V.R.) and the chosen guidence of Dr. Gary Alt, never did an economic impact study to determine what the consequences might be for rural areas under this massive Herd Reduction plan. Did they even care? Was it an oversight? Did the executive wildlife manager even consider it?
I don't think it was DCNR that let us down so much as the Pennsylvania Game Commission. Had the agency done some priliminary studies and maybe a pilot program some of these problems might have surfaced andmethods to deal with them developed. That's very much basic management practice. The good news is that the agency has a new Executive Director, who so far appears to have some positive and progressiveideas, as well as a new president of Commissioners who is truely a sportsmen's advocate, something some of the other commissioners should remind themselves of more often. If the Director caninfluence certain members of the Board of Commissioners to step into the 21 st century and permit some progressive thinking, things in Pennsylvania may improve.Some changes in executive positions might be in order also. Those who permitted Dr. Alt to manage without any oversight should be repositioned within the agency, preferably to the office of PLO. (Permanent Latrine Orderly.) |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Since when has the PGC been charged with maintaining the economy of an area?? Apples & oranges.
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RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Some peoplehave their own criteria for judging such things, T.
Many of the rural northcentral economies were already in decline long before the PGC enacted the herd reduction programs. It is now fashionable to blame that decline on fewer deer, if it suits the purposes of those that have long blamed the game commission for anything that suits their goals of condemnation and fostering discontent. Last year there was a lengthy article in the York Daily Record that claimed the game commission was responsible for the economic woes of Renovo in particular and Clinton Co. in general, due to declining numbers of deer and declining numbers of deer hunters. They conveniently overlooked the past history of Renovo that includes the major loss of railroad shops and other industrial jobs, over the previous 30years. They even included a graph of the previous five years' worth of deer kills for Clinton County, that oddly enough, indicated deer kills were fairly stable over that period. As for the claims aboutsome commissioners being more attune to the demands of hunters than others, that is only one part of their mission. It is not the PA Deer Commission, nor does its sole purpose for being, have anything to do with making hunters happy at the expense of something else it is charged with watching over. The PGC is legally-bound to manage the wildlife of PA in the best interests of everything and everyone: Wildlife, habitat and hunters. Most understand that, others are bound to rant and rave about other things that suit their purposes to distort the reality of what needs to be done. |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
I say let the people of the rural comunities descide what they want as far as tourism and such, not some city slicker desciding for them. What makes Potter, tioga, great is how rural they are, buerocrats from the city don't always havethe answer, they can sell thier ideas like they are, but let the locals descide what they want. IMO I have no desire to go their during tourism times because I can watch flatlanders act stupid 365 days a year down here where I'm from.
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RE: Pa. "Wilds"
From what I'm hearing and reading four sox the locals up there aren't too keen on Rendell's idea of turning Potter into a little Poconos.Most live up there for a reaon,they enjoy that way of life.Now they have some city slickers telling them how it's gonna be.Rendell couldn't find his way outta Philly and neither can his two anti hunting spokesmen from the DCNR.
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RE: Pa. "Wilds"
http://www.tiogapublishing.com/articles/2006/02/02/free_press-courier/news02.txt
In other business, commissioners heard from Planning Director Jim Weaver on taking some proactive steps to deal with the PA Wilds initiative. He asked the commissioners to approve, which they did via ordinance, an intergovernmental cooperation agreement that sets up a planning team for the 12 counties Harrisburg has dubbed “the Wilds.” “We recognized it [the Wilds designation] as a threat,” said Weaver. “We also recognized that if we continued to think of it that way, it would continue to be a threat.” “I'll be blunt,” Weaver continued. In describing the Wilds, he said it is an effort “to turn north central Pennsylvania into a playground for Philadelphia.” This intergovernmental agreement, the first of its kind, will help support the work of planning offices and directors, be a conduit for interaction and communication with municipal officials, and identify the Wilds-impacted communities so that they can be helped in responding to “potential increased visitation and development that may result around DCNR investment areas.” “I think it's a good idea,” said Commissioner Mark Hamilton. “It will give us more of a voice at the state level to deal with local issues the state may not be aware of.” “I think this is a good group to look out for our interests,” said Vogler. The PA Wilds planning team wants to help the region take advantage of economic opportunities rising from the Wilds initiative yet keep the rural, small-town, and natural qualities that make the region unique and attractive. Members will include county planning directors, executive directors of the regional planning and development commissions, Department of Conservation and Natural Resources representatives, tourist promotion agency members, and representatives from local government associations. The team will be an advisory body. It will have no independent authority to enter into contracts, usurp powers of individual counties, or commit counties to expend funds |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Denny F---If you're going to quote someone, use the whole quote, not just part of it. You stated Krempasky said "We didn't come here to talk about deer management." You let it drop there. My information has the quote as saying "we didn't come here to talk about deer management. Hunting has changed over the past 20 - 30 years. If you look at the outdoor recreational activities- hunting is not one of them."
Let's tell it as it was told---------- |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Hunting isn't one of the featured activities being jabbered about in the PA Wilds deal. And your point is what, that I didn't repeat the guy's entire spiel?
Isn't it already part of the postings here? :eek: He actually didn't go to Potter Co. to talk about hunting. I've figured out that part. |
RE: Pa. "Wilds"
Sorry to get you upset---- I just considered the second part of that quote to be the most important part, and shows the true colors of the initiative in regards to the hunter's role in the program.
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