RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

OK, T, you caught me getting lazy in making my point. You are correct that doe tags were cut in 2G and more cuts are likely. My point should have been that the PGC doesnt seem to haveany sense of urgencyabout what the deer density in areas like most of 2G really is. Lets face it, the concerns or the 2G guys are beginning to sound pretty serious. I think we agree that most big woods counties simply cant support the numbers of past years but the PGC doesnt seem concerned enough that things may have gone a bit too far.

As for Sunday hunting, again you are correct. Sunday hunting lies in the hands of our legislators. My point should have been that the PGC fought Sunday hunting vehemently for years and doesn't appear to be all that interested inasking the legislature for it even now when, IMHO, it is so universally accepted elsewhere and ripe for acceptance here.

RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

You got your facts mixed up windwalker.DCNR did the IR flyovers not the PGC.Also,they only flew over state forests,where the hunters were complaining about no deer.They did not fly over farms.I guess they decided it was best to cut their own throats last yearby decreasing the antlerless allocations.Go ahead and hope for a takeover.When DCNR is in charge of the deer herd you'll really have something to complain about if you think it's so bad now.

RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

Don't let the facts confuse you, Windwalker. You have an opinion. Opinions are better than facts any day, aren't they?

RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

"You got your facts mixed up..."

Nah, just no facts to mix up. Doesn't matter how many times folks point out that DCNR did the FLIR studies, some will still repeat that the PGC did it or ordered it done, etc. IIRC, the PGC did ask DCNR to include parts of some SGLs where they were close to state forests. Supposedly the legislature has set aside funds for more FLIR studies next year.

The US Army Corps of Engineers did their own FLIR studies at Raystown, long before DCNR got on board. I was there when the Corps biologist presented their FLIRfindings and heard people cuss and carry on about how they hunted there and knew dang well that guy was lying. So much for science vs good ol' boy logic.

Actually, DCNRpicked some of theareasbecause hunters had stated they found no deer there, not the other way around as claimed here. Their findings are available on their website for anyone that wants to see the results.

As for the statement that PA has some turkeys, some bears and some woodchucks, PA now has all-time high populations of turkeys and bear. I've been shooting woodchucksfor over 45 years, don't appear to be any shortage of them either.

Still plenty of deer around too, although my definition of plenty may not fly with those that became used to seeing 30 or 40 doe run by 'em on opening day of firearms seasons and demand a return to those days.

Beginning to think the PGC's biggest problem is having to deal with the dimwittedness of what one self-proclaimed writer calls "our sporting class".

;)

PA still has lots of bunnies. They're just now mostly on surburban lawns, many of which were farm lands not all that long ago. I too enjoyed pheasant hunting in my youth, but those days are gone for various reasons. Pheasants never belonged here, now that they're gone it's time to move on.

RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

Pheasants did just fine until our clean farming came aboard denny.
And there aren't plenty of deer in all places in PA.Some of the NC region has been overharvested in big tracts of stateland.That's a fact.You can't blame hunters that live in those areas or have work and money invested in cabins that are passionate enough about deer hunting to want some changes.I don't here these people asking for 20-50 deer a day.

RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

Granted that pheasants did better during previous farming practice times, but no farmer is going to go back to those practices and the PGC cannot afford to convert tens of thousands of acres of SGLs into 1950-60s farming habitat either, just to tickle pheasant hunters' fancies. I am more concerned about native PA game species, than I am about imported critters. If they want to spend money on game birds, let it be grouse and quail.

Didn't say deer were plentiful everywhere. Deer were not plentiful everywhere 20, 30 or 40 years ago either. I hunt in 3A, mostly Tioga and Potter counties, but in an area that's a combination of farms, woodlots and with a bit of big woods in the area.

We don't have as many deer there as we had five years ago, but there are no shortage of such places now in that same boat. 40 years ago there were virtually no deer there, even though the habitat was there for them backthen.

City people built camps in the NC from the 1920s on, because it was beautiful country and because there were more deer there, than closer to the cities they lived near. Times change. Now in many cases, the deer are more plentiful closer to where NCcamp owners live. If hunters want to hunt deer badly enough, some of them will have to learn to love hunting them where the deerare.

When the NC habitat rebounds in areas where overabundant deer numbers had adversely affected it for years, I suspect deer numbers will come back as the habitat improves. But hopefully not to pre-HR numbers. I figure it's why the wizardswill continue to adjustthe allocations in areas like2G.

RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

doug,you are right. did you know they got lost flying over clinton county,so they stopped.truth is, they did not find deer numbers they were after, so why waste money on survey.state rep hanna here wants a meeting setup with PGC here. mr.feaser says, come to harrisburg, were not coming there. i know you dont like the USP but at least they came to clinton county to discuss our deer here.more than we can get from PGC.then our DCNR says we have to learn how and whereto hunt.this was all in paper this week here in lock haven,pa.

RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

good post,germaine.i dont have to add anything to it.we dont want 30 deer a drive but it would be nice to go home and say you saw 10 or 15 deer for days hunt.i have friends that never saw deer the first week of season and many that saw only 2 or 3.i saw 4 deer for 2 weeks of hunting here in 2g clinton county.oh, yes, they are hiding or wayback or we dont know how to hunt anymore., even penn state said we dont know how to hunt,ha. take care

RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

dennyf, can i offer some info,not being smart to you.you said 30/40 DOE ran by us.here is way it was,you could put a drive on and get 10or 12 deer a drive to come by.some of them were on next drive.you would have , maybe 5 bucks ,6 doe ,and fawns.you always hadclose to 1/3 as bucks,little ones and big ones.i did have 35 deer come by me in 1 drive once. out of that 13 were bucks with horns,rest doe and fawns and button bucks.so, if it was all DOE,i would be first to say we had too many DOE.we did not .we never shot little bucks.next year we would have alll nice bucks to hunt. out of 20 in our crew,we would get 15buck a hunting season and maybe 5 or 6 doe to keep herd in line for next year. we only shot old doe to.sorry i rambled but if we had to many DOE, i weould agree with your comment.take care

RE: Let's face reality in PA
 

I'm very much in favor of native species. I have to wonder why the PGC will not further impliment their PROVEN Grouse Study Plan in other parts of the state. This study has been ongoing for over 30 years.
If we can't sustain a huntable population of Pheasants, why not proceed with a proven method of managing Grouse as is outlined in the Grouse Study? The chief Grouse Biologist at the PGC states in the report that by using this plan Pennsylvania could have Grouse numbers that would rivalMichigan, Minn., and WIto include upstate NY, and still have a very good timber harvest for revenue. Why wouldn't the agency want that kind of a situation?

As far a Pheasants are concerned the agency seems to want to cut hunter numbers by reducing the stocked bird numbers. Theywere even going to reduce the stocking numbers for the YOUTH PHEASANT HUNT had not the rank and file game farm workers come up with a few thousand birds tomaintain the figure originally designated. Imagine that taking birdsaway from the kids.

Proper wildlife management is sorely lacking within the executive management offices of the Pennsylvania Game Commission.