RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

So you're saying we should take the word of a few internet nobodies over the word of allthe agencies and universities with all their financial resources and staffs of literally thousands of professionals. Got it! LOL, this just keeps getting funnier and funnier!

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

Well, since you chose to reply to me, I guess I will tell you what I think then. The sites I posted links to listed the eastern puma as endangered in PENNSYLVANIA. Since there is a known population in Florida as you say, and since the critter is obviously endangered, sure I think it should be protected, just like bald eagles, ivory billed woodpeckers, and whooping cranes are protected. Still, perhaps you didn't understand what I was saying. Nearly every year, a bald eagle is shot by some jerkovski that thinks with the wrong head. More freqently than one would think, whooping cranes are shot by the same kind of jerkovski, again thinking with the wrong head. Ivory billed woodpeckers were thought to be extinct until this year, when one was "heard" by an expert who supposedly knows the sound of an ivory billed woodpecker, so they are once again endangered.

I am not sure whether or not mountain lions exist in PA. I have seen no conclusive evidence that they do, but that should not and does not close the book for me. I will keep an open mind. Still, I agree with you that some of the folks who are absolutely sure because they have a friend whose cousin knows a guy who's girlfriend's co-worker saw a truckload of lions with State Farm tags in their ears can sometimes be funny. I believe that those who have posted photos here believe that they saw what they think they saw. I believe that those who say they saw something saw something, and I believe that they believe it was a mountain lion. I was not there, didn't see what they saw, and am not poking fun at them. By the way, I have two aquaintances who will swear on a stack of bibles that they saw one on Tuscarora Mountain, near Fort Loudon, two years ago. These guys have hunted out west, both have killed mountain lions, and both would know one when they saw one. One guy is sober as a judge, the other is known to occasionally overindulge. One tells tall tales, but the other is not known to do so. Again, I didn't see what they saw, and added their reports to the list of unconfirmed sightings.

I hope this helps you to understand where I am coming from. I tend to be a sceptic, but don't poke fun at those who have seen something I can't prove conclusively doesn't exist. By the way, neither can you.

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

I'm glad someone else finally said this too. I have been saying this since the beginning of the thread and some guys just don't get the arguement I was making. Why should I make fun of someone who thinks they saw a mountain lion in PA, NY or any other eastern state? Some say there is no absolute proof mountain lions are in the east and in the same breath say they could have been a family pet that escaped. Does that make sense?
That would mean to me they exist in the eastern woods. How many of these sighting were explained away as pets? God only knows how many could have escaped or were released by someone who could no longer handle the size of the animals. We just don't know! Do we?

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

That is right.
That is what makes some guys on here seem so rediculous. I never said
that these cougars were wild, naturally occuring. I said they could be released pets or wild animals expanding their range. We just don't know.
Because some government agency says there are NONE..PERIOD on some
map on the www, arewe are to dismiss reputable sightings. I don't know about you but I use my head and say it is possible. The governmental policy pushers don't tell me what to think. What ever there is out there, the numbers are few, that I will say. Would a small population that is expanding into PA not show up first as brief sightings by locals and then, many years and millions of study grant dollars later, on governmental range maps. Use your heads people. How do things happen in the real world?

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

No I can't prove conclusively they don't exist in PA or NY or whereever and I have no intention of trying to. I don't have to. It's foolish to try to prove a negative. The responsibility of proof is on those who claim they DO EXIST here in the east and nobody has been able to do that. Just look at the title of this thread for heaven's sake! Like I've said before, all the agencies, universities etc say the evidence is not there to support the claim so until the professionals start telling a different story, I'm just not buying the BS you see posted all over the place. As far as poking fun... Let me explain where I'm coming from. I'm a hunter andfor good or illI get associated with other hunters and I'm sorry but this obsession some hunters have with convincing everybody there are mountain lions all over the place andcombinethat withobviously faked photos and stories and conspiracy theories and its down right embarassing. Lot's of people are laughing, not just me and I'm getting lumped in with the nut cases. I don't like it and therefore I'm going to keep poking fun at the nut cases until maybe one day they'll stop telling these outrages stories. I want them to put up or shut up. If they've got something, then they should take it to some agency and get it verified and we can all stop this baloney. If they can't do that then I wish they would quit embarassing themselves and me by association along with them.

Yes it does. It should be blatantly obvious they are talking about wild moutain lions not pets. Are you actually telling me you haven't been able to figure that out?

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

I don't wish to perpetuate this any more than necessary, but here are a couple of websites from authoritative sources:
http://aginfo.psu.edu/news/august01/lion.html

http://pennsylvania.sierraclub.org/PAChapter/Newsletter/Sylvanian_win01.pdf

http://aginfo.psu.edu/News/January04/mountainlions.html

It seems that Dr. San Julian (Penn State University) agrees that there has been no documented proof of a wild and breeding population of cougars in Pennsylvania. The sierra club would like to see them, for obvious reasons. The sierra club has been infiltratec by HSUS and PETA types and has become a distinctly anti-hunting organization. Wild predators are OK, but humans should be vegans, according to this type of person. Wild cougars would mean that we wouldn't need hunters to keep the deer population under control. I included the link below to the eastern cougar foundation so that you could see what they are saying. Keep in mind that the eastern cougar foundation believes that there are cougars here. It borders on religion to them, so they might be considered a biased source.
http://www.easterncougar.org/abouteasterncougars.htm

In summary, most authoritative sources do not believe that there is a wild breeding population of cougars in this area. They attribute the confirmed sightings and captures to illegally released pets, which in my mind, is very believable. This is not to say that nobody has seen one. Like Dr. San Julian, I continue to wonder why we don't have a dead one to study if they are here.

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

Talk about ridiculous, in the same breath you say you never said that these cougars were wild you say "or wild animals expanding their range".

Look, it's about time to drop the "pet" thing. Nobody gives a rat's butt about an escaped or released pet that is extremely unlikely to survive more than a couple weeks on its ownand that's not what this debate is about anyway. That's just a red herring to bring up when you guys realize you are loosing the argument. The title of this thread is "Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA". If by that you think it means pet moutain lions then there is absolutely no point of the thread at all and everybody who can think past their nose knows it. Of course there are moutain lions in PA. There are zebra's and elephants too. I saw a polar bear in Philadelphia. No kidding I did! Is this really the game you want to play? As you say... "use your head".

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

Sylvan - very informative cut and paste web page by US F&W - BUT - It is dated 1991. Looks like some data and research dated back in 70's.
Come On, this is 2006. Where's the Beef buddy.

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

It's there CURRENT web site AJ and I didn't bring them up, somebody else did trying to say that the US F&W says there are lions in maine. They don't!. And that's why I cut and patested from their site. As far as data back to the 70's. What's not valid about that? It's the last time there were known mountain lions anywhere in the east (again except Florida).

If you are trying to indicate the US F&W or any other agency is reporting more recent data that says there are ML's now I'd sure like to see it. I don't think you are though are you?

RE: Mountain Lions Are Absolutely in PA (photo Added)
 

Sylvan and the other doubters:

You can claim that there are no mountian lions in PA. As strongly as you claim they don't exist, I can provide at least 6 others that I know personally that will claim that they do BECAUSE THEY SAW THEM WITH THEIR OWN EYES. (Trust me, I belive them all, because they are all either relatives or close family friends with very strong religious convictions.)

Do you think Sproulman would give a rat's ass about this thread if he wasn't sure about what he saw?

However,please do not try to claim that this photo was faked or taken anywhere other than inPA. By doing that, you would be calling me and/or my uncle a liar!

I gave my uncle's name, I told everyone exactly where and when the photo was taken, and I am willing to swear upon a bible, or on any oath you want regardingthe validity of this being an undoctored/unretouchedphoto that wastaken in PA in July of 2002.

As for those not seeing the animal's tail, this cougar crossed right in front of my uncle's truck. When it was on the road, my uncle said that its tail hung down to within an inch or two of the ground. He was disappointedwhen he got the developed photo back and the tail wasn't visible.

The only person he ever gave the photo to was my father. He was not looking for any kind of fame, fortune or glory, and he certainly was not taking it to help out the anti-hunting cause as he has been an avid hunter for over 35 years.He was simply taking a picture of an animal that he had never seen. Up until after he told my father and family about it, he never knew that they werenot supposed to still be in PA.

Nobody is required to believe what he saw other than his friend (Billy Pickering I think is his name)whom was there to witness the entire event.

However,you better be prepared to defend yourself if you want to call him or me a liar. Truthfulness is something that we both value very deeply, and calling someone a liar is "fightin' words" in my book.

- Gr8ful