And Setter, wouldn't it show a little more class to NOT hope thatmy family gets taken hostage? Why not say, "I hope that you find yourself in a situation where someone goes on your property and allegedly leaves some apple cores laying around so that they can shoot a bear?"

I'm just guessing, but you probably rode the short bus to school, didn't you?

Pretty sure i said i hope that is does not happen to you.

Personal slander, defense mechanism for those cannot create an intelligent thought.

Devastating comeback, shap stuff. But it doesn't compensate for the fact that the last few posts just seem to have whooshed right over your head.
Think about it and get back to me en platte...

Here's an intelligent thought, warrants aren't usually required in hostage situations.

And you still haven't figured out it out, have you. Its not slander to pinpoint a dullard...

No I didn't miss it, sorry to disappoint. My compliments to you on putting to good use the thesaurus you got for christmas.

Well, since you added the little wink we all know this wasn't seriously directed at anyone here ...right??? Well since wer'e just kidding maybe I could respond with:

The only cops that push to short circuit our constitutionare the ones toofat and lazy fromwarming a stool at the donut shop to do their job correctly or worse, they're more crooked than the bad guys.




You may be right on this but this particular casehappens to be about the PA State constitution, which, according to all reports I've seen on this case, leans a bit more toward the property owner.

Please do refer us to the section of the federalist papers if you can find them. Maybe this is indeed a legal question that has been asked and answered. Maybe not.

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is an act that would endanger others and is correctly excluded from the definition of our right to free speech.
That doesnt relate in any way to a private property ownerexpecting that it should require good reason for any government agent to enter said property without good reason.


Setter,

The GW went on the guys property based on a tip. Saying he didnt go to "see what he could" findis a little silly don't you think?

Besides, the point is that the GW was permitted by present law to just walk onto private property to search or do anything else he wanted "in the course of his duties"

Personally, IF the guy really did bait the bear intentionally I hope they still have enough evidence on him to uphold the charge. That doesn't change the fact that I believe that law enforcement needs a better reason to enter his posted private property. I've said several times that we don't really have much information about the actual case except that the GW found a pile of apples with blood nearby. I used to have a half dozen apple trees in my yard that produced 2-3 pickup loads of apples each season. The apples made the yard a mess. We would rake them into a compost pile in the back corner.I dont shoot anything in my back yard but if I had,I personally don't feel that those apples should be considered bait simply because they got moved a few feet. We havent heard the rest of the story. Maybe it was a bait pile, maybe not. The point of this thread is whether or not a lawthat permitsa GW to enter your private posted property without showing just cause is a good law.

Setter,

Actually its an issue of putting a good education and common sense to use. Whoosh, whoosh....you still don't get it[:-]

Your right he went there on a tip. But it be normal in an investigation to look into information passed on. I do know some GW's and from a saftey standpoint I know there would have been at least 2 of them had they gone there with the specific intention to search the property.

I honestly don't believe you would have a problem, having apples trees on your property and having raked them into a pile, even if you did shoot an animal there. In this case the apples were mash, I believe the record said of the appearance, as the product from making cider, in no way natural to where they were found.

I hope that no one has taken my posts to say I don't care about people civil liberties. I just feel you have to balance those liberties with the need for those in law enforcement to do their job and protect society as a whole.

It did say mash and I was wondering what that meant. Thanks for clearing that up. Gotta say that if the guy was making cider on his property and the bear got into a by product of that cider making, then he was no more guilty of baiting than if a farmer shot a deer feedingon a spill from a corn picker. If he brought the mash in from another location then that's another story.

Just to step back a bit to the actual case as it's been presented in the appeal by the defendant, the GW didn't come on his property to initiate a search. Acting on a tip he went to the cabin to talk to the now defendant. When he walked up the driveway to reach the cabin he saw the "bait piles" in "plain view."

So as I understand it this particular case, although the thread has taken many twists and turns, isn't just a matter of a GW entering the property to investigate the land. He was entering the property to question the individual about the tip he received and saw the violations. So there are two questions here.

1. Do NO TRESPASSING signs at the end of your driveway restrict Law Enforcement from attempting to knock on your door?

2. Were the "bait piles" truly within "plain view" from the driveway or cabin where the GW states he was when he saw them?

And I understand that the PA Courts may be more likely to side with the defendant, but the US Supreme Court has a history of siding with LE in regards to this very issue.

The text of the document as provided by setter77 can be found here: http://www.courts.state.pa.us/opposting/cwealth/out/1050cd04_1-7-05.pdf

In case you don't want to follow the link here is the gist of what the GW did.

….Later that day, the Game Commission received a tip that Russo’s hunting camp was “baited” in violation of Section 2308(a)(8) of the Game Code.

Deputy WCO Pierce went to Russo’s camp at approximately 6:30 p.m., and no other person was present. All of Russo’s land was clearly marked with “No Trespassing” signs. Deputy WCO Pierce walked up the driveway, a distance of 600 feet, and arrived at Russo’s hunting camp, which is not visible from the public road. He observed in plain view a pile of “apple mash” measuring eight feet wide and six feet long, which was approximately 90 feet from the cabin.

Deputy WCO Pierce also observed a large indentation in the pile and a clearly identifiable bear paw print. He recovered some leaves with blood droplets at the pile.

Upon further exploration of the camp, Deputy WCO Pierce found another “apple mash” pile approximately 150 feet from the cabin, a corn feeder filled with corn, and a second pile of corn. Approximately 400 yards up a road, he found bear entrails, which revealed that the bear had recently eaten corn and mashed apples…….


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