1 DEER AND YOUR DONE
12-21-2005, 07:44 PM
#51
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Altoona,PA
Posts: 679
RE: 1 DEER AND YOUR DONE
oh i hear ya germain, i cant wait for those gobblers!!! hey dont forget if you want to buy a 2nd tag, you can apply jan 1st
ORIGINAL: germain
Spring=gobblers.Ah the smell of wildflowers and the sight of dogwoods bloomimg.The sounds of peepers and the warm sun on my back.
Everything sounds so good until I think about those dang blasted nats and skeeters.
Spring=gobblers.Ah the smell of wildflowers and the sight of dogwoods bloomimg.The sounds of peepers and the warm sun on my back.
Everything sounds so good until I think about those dang blasted nats and skeeters.
12-22-2005, 07:51 AM
#52
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 70
RE: 1 DEER AND YOUR DONE
The 3D area I am talking about is around Peck's Pond, near Hawley. My good friend from work and his family have a hunting cabin there. He only heard 3 shots on the first day. The second day he took a walkfor 5 hours and saw three sets of tracks.
12-22-2005, 07:57 AM
#53
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 70
RE: 1 DEER AND YOUR DONE
ORIGINAL: patrkyhntr
OK, let's not make it personal. But it seems that you want just that. Why else would you question what I do for a living? I am retired. I don't work for anyone. As far as I know, I have no relatives who work for either DCNR or the PAGC, so put that stupid puppy to rest, will you? Are you one of Jim Slinsky's relatives? Maybe Jim himself?
Check stations would be nice, but what makes you think those same scoflaws who don't send in their report cards would go one foot out of their way to take their deer to a check station? You and I both know people who butcher their own deer and haven't sent in a report card in twenty years. Would you set these stations up at every intersection? Who do you think would pay for the cost? It works fairly well for black bears because we only kill a few thousand of them and "sportsmen" seem to be happy to check them in for the recognition it gets them. It doesn't work that way for deer. What recognition do you get for shooting a button buck? By the way, I hear that Maryland got about 45% of their deer brought to check stations. How did they figure that one out? I guess they estimated it.
Again, if you don't like the blame commission's figures for deer harvests, please provide me with a source for your more accurate ones.
Perhaps you are a lazy wannabe sportsman and perhaps not. I would have no knowledge of that since I don't know you and you obviously know nothing about me or you would not have asked such questions as you asked unless your sole purpose was to stir up arguments.
Since you seem to be fond of personal observations as to deer and the health of the forest, here is one of mine. I used to hunt a place close to Orbisonia along a road called Black Log Bench Road. The DCNR logged this area about fifteen years ago. They put fences up in some sections. You should see the difference between the fenced sections and the unfenced areas. The only difference is that the deer are free to feed outside the fences. Without trees there is no forest.
A second observation of mine is that I am seeing far fewer songbirds in the woods than I used to see. This seems to be because many of them nest and feed in the understory. In many areas of our forests there is no understory.
A third observation is that the population of deer seems to have crashed in the mid to late 1990's in the Young Woman's Creek area of Clinton County. A friend of mine who hunts there told me that. He has been hunting out of the same camp for thirty five years. He also told me that the doe licenses for that area sold out almost immediately and that many went unused. It would seem that you sportsmen who hunt there are doing what you want us to do without the Pa. Game Commission to help you.
A fourth observation from my personal hunting experience is that the deer are a lot more wary now than they were five years ago. Perhaps this is because of our having that early muzzleloader season. I suspect that the fewer deer in the woods are smarter deer by the time rifle season rolls around. They are also much harder to pattern than they used to be. I worked on one big buck most of archery season and never got his pattern figured out. Maybe he figured out mine?
With such a thing as managing millions of acres of state forest, gamelands, and a huge population of deer as well, there are no simple solutions. Apparently there are plenty of simple people around, though. Please be assured that I work hard for every deer I get and will continue to do so. I used to see fifty deer on the first day of buck season. This year I saw six. Things have changed. You either change in response to the changes in the situation or your success as a hunter or hunting wannabe will go down. The choice is yours. Of course you can keep on posting on message boards like this one. It won't put more deer in your favorite deer woods, but it might make you feel better.
ORIGINAL: dirz1
First of all, I wasn't personally attacking you with my question. But since you want to make it personal, I could debate with you all day! Do you work for the PGC or do you have a relative that works for them? I could think of a better way to do it. Have mandatory check stations like almost every other state in the country does. If hunters don't want to send there cards them force the issue another way. That is the way any other business would go about it, but what do I know I am just a lazy wannabe sportsman.
First of all, I wasn't personally attacking you with my question. But since you want to make it personal, I could debate with you all day! Do you work for the PGC or do you have a relative that works for them? I could think of a better way to do it. Have mandatory check stations like almost every other state in the country does. If hunters don't want to send there cards them force the issue another way. That is the way any other business would go about it, but what do I know I am just a lazy wannabe sportsman.
OK, let's not make it personal. But it seems that you want just that. Why else would you question what I do for a living? I am retired. I don't work for anyone. As far as I know, I have no relatives who work for either DCNR or the PAGC, so put that stupid puppy to rest, will you? Are you one of Jim Slinsky's relatives? Maybe Jim himself?
Check stations would be nice, but what makes you think those same scoflaws who don't send in their report cards would go one foot out of their way to take their deer to a check station? You and I both know people who butcher their own deer and haven't sent in a report card in twenty years. Would you set these stations up at every intersection? Who do you think would pay for the cost? It works fairly well for black bears because we only kill a few thousand of them and "sportsmen" seem to be happy to check them in for the recognition it gets them. It doesn't work that way for deer. What recognition do you get for shooting a button buck? By the way, I hear that Maryland got about 45% of their deer brought to check stations. How did they figure that one out? I guess they estimated it.
Again, if you don't like the blame commission's figures for deer harvests, please provide me with a source for your more accurate ones.
Perhaps you are a lazy wannabe sportsman and perhaps not. I would have no knowledge of that since I don't know you and you obviously know nothing about me or you would not have asked such questions as you asked unless your sole purpose was to stir up arguments.
Since you seem to be fond of personal observations as to deer and the health of the forest, here is one of mine. I used to hunt a place close to Orbisonia along a road called Black Log Bench Road. The DCNR logged this area about fifteen years ago. They put fences up in some sections. You should see the difference between the fenced sections and the unfenced areas. The only difference is that the deer are free to feed outside the fences. Without trees there is no forest.
A second observation of mine is that I am seeing far fewer songbirds in the woods than I used to see. This seems to be because many of them nest and feed in the understory. In many areas of our forests there is no understory.
A third observation is that the population of deer seems to have crashed in the mid to late 1990's in the Young Woman's Creek area of Clinton County. A friend of mine who hunts there told me that. He has been hunting out of the same camp for thirty five years. He also told me that the doe licenses for that area sold out almost immediately and that many went unused. It would seem that you sportsmen who hunt there are doing what you want us to do without the Pa. Game Commission to help you.
A fourth observation from my personal hunting experience is that the deer are a lot more wary now than they were five years ago. Perhaps this is because of our having that early muzzleloader season. I suspect that the fewer deer in the woods are smarter deer by the time rifle season rolls around. They are also much harder to pattern than they used to be. I worked on one big buck most of archery season and never got his pattern figured out. Maybe he figured out mine?
With such a thing as managing millions of acres of state forest, gamelands, and a huge population of deer as well, there are no simple solutions. Apparently there are plenty of simple people around, though. Please be assured that I work hard for every deer I get and will continue to do so. I used to see fifty deer on the first day of buck season. This year I saw six. Things have changed. You either change in response to the changes in the situation or your success as a hunter or hunting wannabe will go down. The choice is yours. Of course you can keep on posting on message boards like this one. It won't put more deer in your favorite deer woods, but it might make you feel better.
Sorry for being so inconsiderate. You seem like a nice person and a responsible hunter. This whole deer thing has me in a frenzy and I guess I am just looking for someone to yell at. Have a Happy Holiday!!!!
12-22-2005, 07:58 AM
#54
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Posts: 317
RE: 1 DEER AND YOUR DONE
ORIGINAL: fight4yourguns
I totally agree with you. Why not make it mandatory to fill out and send in the report cards? If you don't return the card you cannot purchase a license the following year. That's how they do it for DMAP tags. They could send you a coupon or a pin number to take to your License retailer. Probably be too expensive though. Just a thought
It is that those who call themselves sportsmen in this state are too lazy to send in a postage free postcard and report their kills. Only forty percent of us send them in. This is inexcusable
12-22-2005, 08:09 AM
#56
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Posts: 317
RE: 1 DEER AND YOUR DONE
ORIGINAL: sproulman
you speak truth.our local sportsmen club here in clinton county is problem too.they want all this doe killing.president of club does whatever the DCNRwants.they got money 100,000 from the DCNR to improve the clubhouse this year.guess what, now DCNR is telling them what to do and they dont like it from what we hear.the only group that is fighting this doe massacre is UNIFIED SPORTSMEN OF PA.they have filed a lawsuit against the PGC.to stop this doe killing.DCNR wants flowers, bugs, hiking trails,birds,canoe trips but NO DEER.
you speak truth.our local sportsmen club here in clinton county is problem too.they want all this doe killing.president of club does whatever the DCNRwants.they got money 100,000 from the DCNR to improve the clubhouse this year.guess what, now DCNR is telling them what to do and they dont like it from what we hear.the only group that is fighting this doe massacre is UNIFIED SPORTSMEN OF PA.they have filed a lawsuit against the PGC.to stop this doe killing.DCNR wants flowers, bugs, hiking trails,birds,canoe trips but NO DEER.
As far as wanting flowers, bugs, hiking trails, birds, and canoe trips, count me among those who also want those things. The forests of this state are not your personal playground to be managed in such a way that you can get a deer with the least possible effort. They should be managed in such a way that they are kept in an ecological balance. When one species, such as deer gets out of balance, damage is done as it was in the northcentral forests. Fixing the damage will not be pleasant if you own a cabin there or hunt there. There will be a number of years in which the population of deer will be very low until the forests recover. By the way, the population of deer crashed in the mid to late 1990's. This was before the program of herd reduction was put in place. Do you want to blame that on a program that didn't even exist then?
Real sportsmen are also conservationists. Conservationists know that nature is much more complex than you seem to realize. Do some reading and study the problems our forests face today and you might feel differently about the USP and their silly lawsuit.
12-22-2005, 02:36 PM
#57
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: 1 DEER AND YOUR DONE
Good posts turkey hunter.I'd love to see the out come of the USP lawsuit if it ever goes to court.There are reams and reams of indisputable evidence showing how much damage deer have done to the habitat.the only argument the USP has is acid rain.Unfortunately for them,they haven't been able to explain why the red oak is growing inside of the exclosures.After all,both sides of the fence recieve the same rain.The USP has done nothing but make themselves look like a bunch of clowns.
Personally,I'd rather see more deer than trillium but I understand the need to balance the herd with the habitat.We can't support a large healthy herdwith our forests in the condition they're presently in,especially in the north centarl part of the state.We did exactly what needed to be done.Deer numbers are painfully low in certain areas but eventually,the hunting will be better than it's ever been before and we'll have opportunities we never thought possible.
Personally,I'd rather see more deer than trillium but I understand the need to balance the herd with the habitat.We can't support a large healthy herdwith our forests in the condition they're presently in,especially in the north centarl part of the state.We did exactly what needed to be done.Deer numbers are painfully low in certain areas but eventually,the hunting will be better than it's ever been before and we'll have opportunities we never thought possible.
12-22-2005, 02:55 PM
#58
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Posts: 317
RE: 1 DEER AND YOUR DONE
It depends upon what you mean by better than before, Doug. If you mean that you stand a better chance of seeing a nice buck, you are probably right. I doubt that we will ever see the huge herds of deer we saw ten years ago. A healthy forest probably can't support more than twenty deer per square mile. If it gets much above that, there is damage.
Personally, I tend to agree with you. I love hunting and love to see deer. I also like to see wildflowers, tweety birds, and all the other stuff that grows in a healthy forest. It all comes together in a healthy ecosystem.
I got a copy of the report put out by the Pa. Habitat Alliance and read it from cover to cover. Being one who had training in the discipline of science, I can find little to criticize in it. What I did find was a bunch of people who are hunters and also scientists who contributed to it speaking with one voice. It grieves me no end to see folks who call themselves sportsmen bad-mouthing the idea that the forests should not be managed just for deer. It makes us all look bad. If that is what the USP had in mind, they are doing a wonderful job of it.
Merry Christmas, and remember the words of Janis Joplin.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/janisjoplin/mercedesbenz.html
Personally, I tend to agree with you. I love hunting and love to see deer. I also like to see wildflowers, tweety birds, and all the other stuff that grows in a healthy forest. It all comes together in a healthy ecosystem.
I got a copy of the report put out by the Pa. Habitat Alliance and read it from cover to cover. Being one who had training in the discipline of science, I can find little to criticize in it. What I did find was a bunch of people who are hunters and also scientists who contributed to it speaking with one voice. It grieves me no end to see folks who call themselves sportsmen bad-mouthing the idea that the forests should not be managed just for deer. It makes us all look bad. If that is what the USP had in mind, they are doing a wonderful job of it.
Merry Christmas, and remember the words of Janis Joplin.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/janisjoplin/mercedesbenz.html
12-23-2005, 07:33 AM
#59
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: 1 DEER AND YOUR DONE
First of all,I don't think it's that bad at all right now in the parts of 2G where I hunt.I saw alot less deer the last two years than ever before but I still had 9 different bucks within range throughout bow season.I saw alot of deer the two days I hunted in rifle season and had no problems finding deer to kill.I did hunt alot of days without seeing a thing but I believe that had more to do with the deer not moving because of the widespread mast crop than anything.Overall,I had 15 opportunities to kill deer from oct 1st until the last day of rifle.Yep,I saw alot less deer but how many does a guy need to see to have a good year?
Hunting pressure is dropping off,the habitat is starting to recover so I think the best is yet to come.No,we'll never have the ridiculous deer densities we once had but I don't care.Hunting a healthier,more balanced age structure with less pressure is better in my book.I suppose if a guy expects to sit next to the same stump for 20 consequtive years,he'll most likely be disappointed.For those that are willing to putforth the effort and understand the importance of balancing the herd with the habitat,it will only get better.It's gonna be tough for a for more years but once the habitat bounces back,the deer will follow.
Hunting pressure is dropping off,the habitat is starting to recover so I think the best is yet to come.No,we'll never have the ridiculous deer densities we once had but I don't care.Hunting a healthier,more balanced age structure with less pressure is better in my book.I suppose if a guy expects to sit next to the same stump for 20 consequtive years,he'll most likely be disappointed.For those that are willing to putforth the effort and understand the importance of balancing the herd with the habitat,it will only get better.It's gonna be tough for a for more years but once the habitat bounces back,the deer will follow.
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