RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

QDM can provide both quality AND quantity if the habitat is suitable.

Pass the small bucks to let em grow up and shoot plenty of does

RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

I would shoot does if it was legal here. The only time you can take them in Vermont is during bow season or during ML season if you're lucky enough to win an antlerless tag.

If it were legal to shoot does here, I would have a good half dozen deer under my belt instead of zero.

RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

My father hunted VT too during the "golden years" late 50's, and the 60's. He watched the hunting crash in the 1970's. First off,you have tounderstand that the habitat in VT was different back then. Many sheep and dairy farms had closed and their clearings started to grow into slash and sapling which offer prime deer habitat, and lots of winter browse to carry them through the winter. This allowed for better carrying capacity.This bagain in the 1940's and peaked about the mid 60's. The problem was, the deer (doe)populationswhere way too high, and the habitat started to decline rapidly. The late 60's had a huge herd die off, at least in my dads areas. Plus many of the remaining winterhabitat was decimated that did not allow for a hefty rebound in numbers, and the hunting declined. Now allot of that habitat has grown up substationally to mature forests. The same cover that could hold 25-30 deer per sq mile in 1960, may only be able to hold 4-5 deer PSM now. Its a completely different ballgame.

Deer can survive hefty winters if a quality food source is there. VT's mature forest these days cannot hold those numbers anymore. Places with cold winters like MN or even Saskatchewan can maintain high densities because the habitat is there to sustain it.

RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

Thats a bummer!! I dont know much (anything) about Vermonts deer herd, but am amazed that any state agency is trying to practice QDM without killing some does!!!

RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

Most VT hunters demanded a reduction in doe permits mostlydue to a long tradition of buck only hunting.In many zones, (not all)I would agree that a reduction was required. VT's doe populations are fairly low. So its not a situation where there are tons of does and low quality bucks like PA a few years ago.

RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

I honestly thing that Vermont is still allowing each hunter to take too many deer in a calendar year. Currently, the limit is two deer across all seasons. This is the first year that the limit hasn't been 3 per year. I fel that's simply too many for our population. I would like to see the law allow one deer of either sex to be taken during a year. Whether you choose to take that deer in bow, rifle, or ML season is your choice.

I'm not certain, but I think that Maine is a one deer a year state, and I've heard them touted as having the best deer hunting in northern New England.

I'm not trying to complain too much, but I've been skunked every year since I was 11. Granted, part of that is due to the fact that I'm not that good a hunter, but in 13 deer seasons, I figured at some point I'd be bound to get one at least by accident. Who knows, maybe even if the state was overflowing with deer, I'd still walk away empty handed. In any case, the armed hikes that are my deer hunts are still more fun than sitting in front of the TV all weekend.

RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

To make you feel better...Its been 15 seasons for me since taking my last deer in MA. I did pass ona few does, but many times was W/O permit. So you are not alone.

Butthe last line of your statement above saysit all. Just get out and enjoy all that is deer hunting, and thats muchmore than just deer shooting.

As far as the 2 or three deer limit. Didn't theystudy that and realize thatthe # ofguys getting three deer a season was very low??

ME has qualiaty deer, but only has high density in a few areas. Itsstill hard hunting with limited sightings. Its just that when you do see a buck,he can be a big bodied monster. ME also has allot of logged land that helps with browse/edgecover.

If you want quantity deer, head to central-western NY. Lotsand lots of deer and some quality too...

RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

So it almost seems that if VT really wants to improve its deer herd, it may want to spend some time and $ improving habitat. Why not plant food plots on public land, or at least allow hunters to plant food plots on public land?

Of course, its always cheaper to try to solve problems by passing laws rather than actually doing something about it.

RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

That would be a huge part of it. I don't know the legality of hunters planting food plots on public land (call F & G). But VT F & G did encorage hunters to open up apple orchards on hunting areas.

RE: Rather than quality deer management
 

I too am a Vt hunter and have lived through the good and bad times. Logging andfarming are importantto provide deer with suitable habitat forsurvival. Unfortunately most of the recent logging in my area has been in softwoods and had depleted many of the winter yards. Huge stands of sterile hardwoods are now abundant and don't provide much food or cover for deer. Many of the working farms are now sold and have been developed into housing lots. Land posting has increased and habitat has declined.Some of the recent winters have been above normal in the severity index as published by the state. Bad winters, limited yarding areas andless habitat equates to a smaller deer herd. Everything runs in cycles and I hope to see the hunting return to the way I remembered it in the 60's.