Personally, I'm not really against a rifle season in NY either.

I don't agree with those who imply we need one, however. Modern slugs and slug guns have closed the gap with rifles by a lot. Slugs are ruthlessly efficient deer killing machines, provided the guy behind the trigger knows what he's doing.

You're right, there's lots of folks who just like rifles (I'm one, too.) But there's also a lot of folks who want rifles so they can blaze away at that deer on the other side of the field, too.

Shotgun only rules were put in place to limit the range of hunting weapons in fairly populated areas for safety purposes ... what's changed?

Don't be silly. Yes I've shot a rifle, yes I've killed critters with a rifle. If you believe that everything fairly hit with every rifle falls down on the spot, you need a bit more real world experience.

Incidentally, a good friend of mine anchors his deer every year with his shotgun by employing the high shoulder shot. They never go anywhere but down.

"If you cannot shoot a rifle with the accuracy needed to drop a deer where it stands, by all means use a shotgun."

Iassume you mean "you" in the general sense, and are not specifically implying that I can't shoot - no need to get personal, right?

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I was not getting any more personal then you sir, "You want a rifle so you can shoot out to 300 yds instead of 100 yds." I would not make a statement about your ability as a shooter unless I knew you and I do not. By the was I have also dropped a deer where it was standing with my shotgun, I prefer the accuracy of the rifle at any range.

I've taken 2 big mature does (on nuisance permits) in the past two years with a borrowed 30.06. I hit both rightthrought the back of the shoulderwith 180-grain bullets...the first one literally fell on her butt and tipped over backwards and the other dropped andcrawled a few yards and that was it. I've had the same thing happen with slugs too. I've seen a ton of deer hunts on video where the deer have run off after being hit with a rifle and I've seen a bunch where the hit the ground like a ton of bricks too. Rifles definatelyaren't a total cure all for droppingdeer in its tracks. I'm still not jumping on the pro-rifle in the Southern Tier bandwagon either.

That's exactly my feelings on the matter...there's gonnabe tons of peopleout there ripping off long range shots that are well outta their effective shooting range. Shotgun hunting is more like bowhunting...you gotta get the deer in relatively close before you pull the trigger.

If it passes it passes....but I still don't like the safety issues, I don't like the idea of all of the yearling bucks in the county being taken out of the pop. (sounds like PA prior the implementaion of AR's) and I certainly don't like how the DEC has managed to sneak this bill into legislation.

I'm neither for or against rifles (I just bought a new mossberg slug gun last year go figure ) but the dec didn't sneak it in this bill has been brought up several times in the last few years just this time it passed

I do rememberhearing about this proposal in the past, but I don't thinkthey (DEC) have hadany meetings around the state for this to get input from hunters like they did when they did when they tried to pass the early muzzleloader season earlier this year. If they did, I never heard of any. I would think thatthis would have been far more controversial than a week of antlerless muzzleloader in October.

I don't think its too big a deal in most areas- maybe a problem on some small public lands in the effective counties (high hunter density) - but generally - 200-300yd shots are not common anywhere in NY.

The vast majority of deer killed in the effected areas will be at less than 100 yds.

As far as lofting rifle bullets - I'd ask if the people you are concerned about aren't already lofting Shotgun Slugs across the fields? Itsa change in mindset. I don't know if this group of people is capable of changing their idiotic "hunting" methods.

That doesn't mean that law abiding individuals could not really enjoy hunting with "grandpa's" 30.30 - I know I would.

FH

I guess I agree with most of you on most points, minus the real crazy stuff. Well, and Phade, him and me NEVER agree (joking!) I suppose I think of all the single shot pistols with homemade shoulder stocks, and all the 200 yards capable muzzleloaders already out there and wonder, "Why are we even having this conversation?" Seems as though our fears are already out there.

The bottom line is and always will be...lets be accountable for our own actions.

Except that NY voluntary compliance rate of BO is equal to or higher than most all states that have mandatory BO. This is combined with one of the lowest accident rates of any state. Your chance of almost shooting a person would be just as great in those states. Possibly greater because many feel that if they don't immediately see BO, it must be safe. I am not implying this is you, but it is definately a tendency for some.

More EDUCATION - not more meaningless laws that place responsibility on the victim!