Michigan DNR citation
03-08-2014, 04:05 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: LaPorte, IN
Posts: 1,111
The "law" is one big grey area. I truly hate every attorney I had to deal with except two. Most judges I had to deal with were worst...........Lazy liberal SOB's who did not earn nor deserve my respect. They suck up to anyone playing the destitute card, because all they care about is getting all parties out of their court so they can go golfing.
03-08-2014, 05:46 AM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
The "law" is one big grey area. I truly hate every attorney I had to deal with except two. Most judges I had to deal with were worst...........Lazy liberal SOB's who did not earn nor deserve my respect. They suck up to anyone playing the destitute card, because all they care about is getting all parties out of their court so they can go golfing.
03-08-2014, 09:58 AM
#23
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,382
Regarding a violation being either a felony or misdemeanor, I think this would have been an appropriate issue to be handled as an infraction (like a speeding ticket). You pay a fine and don't have a criminal conviction on your record. I realize Game agencies want to be taken seriously and for the laws they enforce to have teeth but there does need to be at least some distinction made between bad intent (not punching out the tag immediately so it could potentially be used again) versus not attaching the tag until done dragging the animal out (likely saved the tag from falling off and being lost which would have caused an even bigger potential issue). Topgun mentioned giving a warning which would have been an excellent resolution.
03-08-2014, 10:40 AM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
CalHunter---I dont know about you when you were working, but when I was performing my LE responsibilities for the AG Dept. I found that by far the hardest thing to deal with was the inconsistencies and lack of uniformity of enforcement between our various employees, most of which plainly dealt with a lack of using a little common sense. That kind of stuff really makes an outfit and other individuals look bad and makes it that much tougher on ones that do use some common sense in their enforcement. I alreadyhave mentioned about the friend of a friend that got a ticket by a DNR Officer up here for having his unloaded shotgun leaning against his truck while he and his buddies were putting away their dogs and taking off hunting vests, etc. The SOB gave the guy a ticket when he could have established a good relationship with them and given a verbal warning. Nope, now the guys all hate the DNR and that negative story is passed around down here, rather than some good will that could and should have been the case. That's another obscure law that I wasn't even aware of that even an unloaded gun up here in MI can't even be leaning against a vehicle. I've unknowingly violated that one many times when I have laid my gun on the open PU tailgate before putting it in my soft or hard case. Yet I go out to Wyoming every year and can have a full magazine and one in the chamber with the gun between my legs while driving down the highways!
03-08-2014, 08:51 PM
#26
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,382
That does sound like a silly law. State legislatures (and the fed) seem determined to pass many laws that really don't make much sense and certainly don't correct the problems or issues that they claim.
I agree that some inappropriate people unfortunately get into LE, regardless of which agency. People tend to want to both like and get along with LE. It's the idiots and jerks who mes that up.
When I started at the Sheriff's Office, they didn't care if you wrote any tickets at all and wanted you to focus on finding and arresting burglars in the neighborhood. Now they have some kind of "expectations" which is just silly. Revenue through tickets wastes officers' time when they could be dealing with real crime and it doesn't raise nearly as much revenue as jurisdictions think.
When you give somebody a warning for something minor instead of a ticket or misdemeanor "arrest" (which we perform by issuing them a ticket anyway), they genuinely appreciate the fact that you're trying to work with them and typically don't make the same mistake again (problem solved).
This is JMHO based on my personal and professional experience BUT I've noticed that cops who focus on little stuff are always busy dealing with minor stuff and rarely make good arrests for real crimes or tend to resolve genuine problems (i.e. catch burglars committing a string of burglaries). Cops who focus on bigger problems tend to find/catch/arrest criminals who are committing bigger crimes.
I agree that some inappropriate people unfortunately get into LE, regardless of which agency. People tend to want to both like and get along with LE. It's the idiots and jerks who mes that up.
When I started at the Sheriff's Office, they didn't care if you wrote any tickets at all and wanted you to focus on finding and arresting burglars in the neighborhood. Now they have some kind of "expectations" which is just silly. Revenue through tickets wastes officers' time when they could be dealing with real crime and it doesn't raise nearly as much revenue as jurisdictions think.
When you give somebody a warning for something minor instead of a ticket or misdemeanor "arrest" (which we perform by issuing them a ticket anyway), they genuinely appreciate the fact that you're trying to work with them and typically don't make the same mistake again (problem solved).
This is JMHO based on my personal and professional experience BUT I've noticed that cops who focus on little stuff are always busy dealing with minor stuff and rarely make good arrests for real crimes or tend to resolve genuine problems (i.e. catch burglars committing a string of burglaries). Cops who focus on bigger problems tend to find/catch/arrest criminals who are committing bigger crimes.
03-09-2014, 05:45 AM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 592
Three years ago I was goose hunting with my two boys 16 and 11. They both had hunter safety cards and licenses, but the guy at Walmart put the waterfowl stamp on the 11 year old's license and not on the 16 year old's. I never noticed.
So we were out hunting and the DOW agent came by us and asked to see all licenses. She pointed out the problem, gave me 48 hours to fix it, took all our info and let it lay. Then she worked with my 11 year old to show him how to handle a shotgun when a law enforcement officer came up. They worked to unload it, present it with the action open, where to point the muzzle, etc. My older boy and I were amazed how patient she was, and how interested my other boy was.
It was a good interaction. We went to Walmart that day and fixed things up - just bought another stamp - and she apparently looked into it, because I never heard back.
I heard the other day that she was promoted and works the big stuff now. I'm glad she was so legit, invested in my boy and his hunting future, and that this type of person is in the leadership that she now is.
The only bad part of the day was that we saw no geese at all.
So we were out hunting and the DOW agent came by us and asked to see all licenses. She pointed out the problem, gave me 48 hours to fix it, took all our info and let it lay. Then she worked with my 11 year old to show him how to handle a shotgun when a law enforcement officer came up. They worked to unload it, present it with the action open, where to point the muzzle, etc. My older boy and I were amazed how patient she was, and how interested my other boy was.
It was a good interaction. We went to Walmart that day and fixed things up - just bought another stamp - and she apparently looked into it, because I never heard back.
I heard the other day that she was promoted and works the big stuff now. I'm glad she was so legit, invested in my boy and his hunting future, and that this type of person is in the leadership that she now is.
The only bad part of the day was that we saw no geese at all.
03-09-2014, 06:23 AM
#28
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Three years ago I was goose hunting with my two boys 16 and 11. They both had hunter safety cards and licenses, but the guy at Walmart put the waterfowl stamp on the 11 year old's license and not on the 16 year old's. I never noticed.
So we were out hunting and the DOW agent came by us and asked to see all licenses. She pointed out the problem, gave me 48 hours to fix it, took all our info and let it lay. Then she worked with my 11 year old to show him how to handle a shotgun when a law enforcement officer came up. They worked to unload it, present it with the action open, where to point the muzzle, etc. My older boy and I were amazed how patient she was, and how interested my other boy was.
It was a good interaction. We went to Walmart that day and fixed who are things up - just bought another stamp - and she apparently looked into it, because I never heard back.
I heard the other day that she was promoted and works the big stuff now. I'm glad she was so legit, invested in my boy and his hunting future, and that this type of person is in the leadership that she now is.
The only bad part of the day was that we saw no geese at all.
So we were out hunting and the DOW agent came by us and asked to see all licenses. She pointed out the problem, gave me 48 hours to fix it, took all our info and let it lay. Then she worked with my 11 year old to show him how to handle a shotgun when a law enforcement officer came up. They worked to unload it, present it with the action open, where to point the muzzle, etc. My older boy and I were amazed how patient she was, and how interested my other boy was.
It was a good interaction. We went to Walmart that day and fixed who are things up - just bought another stamp - and she apparently looked into it, because I never heard back.
I heard the other day that she was promoted and works the big stuff now. I'm glad she was so legit, invested in my boy and his hunting future, and that this type of person is in the leadership that she now is.
The only bad part of the day was that we saw no geese at all.
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 03-09-2014 at 06:30 AM.
03-09-2014, 07:23 PM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,747
Wrong. The game law was broken. You should have affixed the tag as required. If it would have come off And if he wanted to verify it to go back track your drag trail.
