Serioushunter1

People you just aren't thinking right. Let them have their high fences. Then someone should slip in a cut a great big ole hole in that there fence. Then all of the other sportsmen can have legitimate shot at a 160-180 class deer without having to pay $25,000.00. Hunters are happy and business owners have a 25,000 dollar tax deduction! LOL

Big Country

Somebody had that exact idea here in PA about 5 years ago. The trial was three years ago.

The guy with your idea is STILL in prison, but you take your own chances.

Indianahick

Serious-Cutting fences is against the law. Do NOT let me see you do it! I will try to see that you go strait to jail.

Big- 1) are there two of you with that name?
2) Evidently you have missed where I said that if it was leagle in several places. But then again hunting over feeders and bait I do not condone. If you want to then that is fine with me. I do not have to hunt with you. And if you do I wont.
3) We are not talking about 100 to 200 acre pens here. We are talking one hell of a lot smaller 3-5. As I said I beleive thatI drove past the wilderness going to Detroit from Indiana, I do not know how large it is in miles but it is one hell of a lot more than 117 total acres. This is an discussion of where a and b are not close to equal.

In my world as small and narrow minded as it is (you are pushing the envelope there by the way) Drunks or drinking is not allowed where I hunt. Guns and Booze do not mix. I ran into an old high school friend one time while hunting, first he offered me a drink from his bottle, I declined. Second he asked if I would hunt with him as he was hunting alone. I declined there also. Even though I was hunting alone due to work schedules and shift differences.

Indianahick

Oh yeah Big I am not trying to nor do I want to foist my ideas as to hunting on your state or the way that you hunt. And I take that personal.
The chances are that somewhere else down the line I would more than likely have been on your side. Now even if it is not how I feel I will go out of my way to be on the other side.

Enjoy the rest of your life.

bigbuckOO

No thanks man, last thing we want to do is let one of them animals out and start spreading CWD.

Serioushunter1

First off I was joking about cutting a fence. Second off it would not include any jail time for vanadlism. Heck today there are drunk drivers caught for the third time not doing any time, assaults charges that get 180 days and 180 days suspended sentences, possession of drugs gets one about a 300 dollar fine and 2 days in jail. So I believe cutting farmer Brown's (Buellar)fence would get you about as much time as one would get for toilet papering your neighbors house.

Canned killing is a disgrace. I could possibly see a slight difference if one had about 3,000 acres fenced off somewhere in Texas ( Even tough they would not get a dime of my money) but to have 30 five acre pens scattered across 150 acres is WRONG anyway you cut it. Fine if it is legal today and one wishes to participate in pet killing for a fee. But when the laws are passed then those same people need to accept that it is illegal and stop or face the consequences.

And you are most correct BigBuck00 I would not want ones pets to contaminate the real hunting woods.IMO.

Bill Yox

Ok let me attempt to address a few points even if I get the authors wrong. To the man who said his Indiana hunting is just fine...thats my point! Its being threatened along with this enclosure stuff, as you all fight amongst yourselves! You THINK you are getting rid of evil high fenced hunts, but other hunting was also earmarked in some of those conditions...why do you think we all fought it? Yes, WE, not just Indiana sportsmen. And NO, NO, NO, deerfarmers in Indiana and elsewhere did NOT support Bellar. They only supported deerfarming and the ability to hunt behind fence.

Another point, you guys keep talking about 3 to 5 acre hunts. Not so. Most states have very strict laws concerning minimum size requirements, which include but not limited to, herd density, topography, and weapons used. Also, drop the drugged deer bs. There is stress factors when chemically imobilizing deer, called capture myopathy. Stumbling drugged deer will often drop dead, so this is NOT how most operations handle animals prior to a hunter arriving.

Oh yeah, about fencing in your states deer. Nope, we dont want them. We are buying very strong stock and operate strict genetic programs. Those deer are owned by us. Theres some great genetics in the wilds of Indiana, but a good genetic program includes trace back history, something we wouldnt have in the wild.

The CWD cheapshot is very typical of those with no background in this stuff. So far most cases of CWD in captive herds has been traced back to a deer brought from the western states where CWD is already known in the wild. These animals, brought by hunters, has been linked to many contaminations. Check NY state as a good example. Wisconsin used to bring mule deer in from Colorado for the university there to study wasting diseases in deer, for cripes sake. The reason why youll always see CWD outbreaks first detected in captive herds is simple...we test EVERY animal, and thats a post mortem test, by the way. 100% testing, as opposed to most states only spot testing, if at all. Trace back history helps us in captive herds if CWD were detected as well, again, something you couldnt do with wild herds, thus the large controlled kills there.

Like I said guys, theres the limited info you as laymen know, and the rest of it that we farmers know. I could walk some of you through beautiful large tracts that are fenced, youd have a hard time seeing any deer in them. THATS the norm. Youll only see the exception when you look to get rid of us.

I dont care if theres guys like you all who feel you hate enclosure hunts, hell, I put up with hearing the same thing about compound bows, releases, lease hunting, you name it, in the past. But at least if you wanna hate it, have the correct facts.

Indianahick

Bill thanks for the interesting facts. Especially about Deer farmers from other states not supporting Bellars and Bruce. Altho Bellars was running 3 acre pens and Bruces are proported to be. The lack of laws pertaining to these operations and how they are being ran is what is causing the upheavel.
And from what I deduce from your previous and this post is that you and all of the rest actually find these 3 acre pens to be unethical and a bad name for hunting. You have mentioned 100 to 200 acre enclosures, whice evidently mean a farm of well over 1000 acres to be worth while and profitable. Bellars was 1,200 acrs, Bruce is 117, the rest are keeping theirs sizes hidden (at least to the public), feelings are that they are also within the 1,000 and less size and penned as Bellars as he was their lead operator.At present these operations are a blight on hunting. As for the drugging reference, etc I believe that you can veiw the houstan hunt off of a thread on Keith Warrens forums and see for yourself how that penned kill zone was handeled.

Indianahick

Bill, just actually paid attention to where in NY you are located. Bet I have been there. My Daughter and Son in Law used to live in Holley.

bigbuckOO

Why? Are you saying Bellar never drugged deer? Better get your "facts" together if you think not. It's all on record. I hope you dont want to dispute this.

You say NOBODY supported Bellar?????????? Again, where do you get these "facts"? Preserve owners in this state called Bellar the "messiah" who would help make canned hunting legit. Other people in other states had his back as well. Then, after he is arrested for breaking 30+ game laws, they still supported him!!!! You want to dispute this with me too?? Most of these people think Bellar did nothing wrong and the state of Indiana is to blame. You say people didnt support Bellar, lol. I'll tell ya what Bill, i will ask again if you want to dispute this with me. Im not going to embarass you on here unless you want to accuse me of being a liar?? So tell me, did people support Bellar or not?? Let me know, i've got the link waiting!

For a man that lives in New York you sure claim to know an awful lot about an Indiana hunting preserve that was operated less then 20 minutes from my house.