newguy23

You could still use a bolt gun in the service gun... At Camp Perry there was no distinction made between match and service rifles... People still chose to use the AR modified guns... BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE ACCURATE...

How about long range... You can use any gun you wish as long as it weighs under 22 pounds (10 Kilograms)... NICE TRY THOUGH

Long Range Competition
NRA rules provide for slow fire prone competition at ranges beyond 600 yards. It is conducted at distances of 800, 900, and 1000 yards. Some of these matches permit the use of telescopic sights.

The definition of Slow Fire is one round per minute.

I'd like to see you explain this away...

Again... It is simple the Semi-auto guns are more accurate (PERIOD)!

rost495

The AR 15 is a superb platform. Its easy to make it a solid .5 MOA rifle. And it comes in calibers from 22lr to 50 beowulf and many in between.

I know of a few ARs with scopes that shoot .3-.4 moa groups at 300 yards. These are not totally tricked out custom guns. Only floated barrels with correctly machined normal tubes from Krieger, Walther, PacNor and the like.

I've had more than a few Ars that will shoot 1.5 inches at 600 yards for 5 shot groups.

Take a normal bolt gun and the first thing you need to do to make them superb and beat out the semi is about 300 bucks of action truing. Then add a custom tube.

They can be really accurate and really reasonable. I speak as a service rifle HighMaster in both XC and LR shooting.

STubble, not sure of your exact point, but in reality most of the matches are still won at Perry by a bolt gun. What Tubb and Houle used were bolt action rifles. BUT in reality they are basically the AR platform turned to bolt guns instead of semi. They are extremely accurate. More so than the average AR semi.

The Ars main downfall is lock time. If that could be changed to electronic lock time, there would be very little difference between the 2.

Also those talking BR-- FWIW I know of one fellow that has a screamer BR patch shot with an AR. But thats rare. At least he's more credible than Zedicker ever will be.

And those comments on 1000 yard matches. Yep they are bolt gun realm. But they sure are not what you think of bolt guns. If I had time to seriously play every match I could, I suspect that I can be a winner with an AR at 1000 in the right caliber.

Jeff

newguy23

The gun he won with was a modified semi-auto... TUB2000

12 pointer

i think in general the most accurate is a bolt action...

stubblejumper

There you have it.

Since the winning rifles were actually bolt actions you have proven nothing other than the fact that you don't know the difference between a semi auto and a bolt action.If anything the fact that the guns were ar's converted to bolt actions proves that the ar's were not accurate enough to be competitive as semi autos.

rost495

New Guy

Do you see the bolt in the photo. Its a bolt action rifle period. There is no semi auto Tubb 2000 or any of its versions.

I'll grant you it looks a lot like a semi, and thats where a lot of the ideas came from off the SR25 platform. Still all in all its a bolt gun and not a semi!

Jeff

Briman

have you ever shot service rifle? Bolt actions are much more accurate, but they have a disadvantage- its difficult to keep your cheek weld and cycle the action at the same time. This is why when M1s were first allowed for service rifle competition they dominated- they arten't nearly as accurate as an '03 springfield and not even clost to as accurate as a an accurized '03, but people were shooting higher scores with the m1 because it was easier to shoot in rapid fire stages.

The idea of semiauto vs bolt action in timed fore is moot, the semiauto is easier to shoot when you only have 60 seconds to get into position, load, and shoot 10 rounds with a reload in between.

newguy23

is it more an AR-15 (semi-auto) or your guy's 700 PSS... It is basically a semi-auto which has been modified to be a single shot.

stubblejumper

It is now a bolt action reguardless of what it may have been originally designed as.It did not win as a semi auto.It won as a bolt action.
By the way the tubb 2000 is listed as a repeater and not as a single shot.

http://www.mcbrosrifles.com/tubb_2000.htm

rost495

Actually if you would look very closely at it, there are many differences between the TUBB 2000 and a semi auto AR type platform. Externally it may look similar but thats about it. The Tubb is not and never has been a modified AR. It was drawn up from scratch using the best attributes of bolt guns and semi auto SR25 rifles that David has used to win at Perry before.

Now I want to know when you could shoot a bolt gun in a service rifle match. IIRC that has never happened, sans the 03 springfield and thats years ago. I've been shooting Perry for a long time and never heard that one. Sounds like a joke to me.

For those that think a bolt gun is hard to shoot in rapid fire(I agree because all I shoot is service rifle), might I point you to the 200(or is it 300) rapid fire national record. A pair of 10x cleans and followed by an 8x clean to set the record(rules allow that whenever a perfect 20x count score is fired( one time IIRC now) you can continue to fire until you fire a 10. So they got a 3rd string and managed that 100-8x score which leads to a national record of 200-28x (more correctly a 300-28x). Fired with a bolt gun! The Tubb 2000.

Still I always prefer the challenge of the service rifle.

But all in all I suspect that until the issue of lock time is solved, then the semi will never be as accurate as a good bolt gun can be.

Jeff