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-   -   Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns/82979-ruger-204-big-enough-whitetail.html)

Drhuner 12-17-2004 09:19 AM

Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Do you guys think the 204 will take down a Deer with a sholder shot, I know it will with a neck Head or lung-Heart shot.

frizzellr 12-17-2004 09:23 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whiteail
 
No I don't think its big enough for deer just like I don't think the 22 calibers are suited to deer either. Why do some people insist on pushing the envelope at the expense of inhumane kills and wasted animals?

newguy23 12-17-2004 09:25 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
The 204 is a VARMINT round, not a deer round. It would not be ethical!

oldelkhunter 12-17-2004 09:29 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 

I know it will with a neck Head or lung-Heart shot.
First hand experience?

johnch 12-17-2004 09:33 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You need to take a ethices class.
I agree it's a varmit round.
It may kill but not humainly .
Penatration will be next to nothing because the bullet is designed to fragment.

pharaoh2 12-17-2004 11:24 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
I won't say it won't kill a deer. And I do belive that the .22 centerfires will do the job, but please let that one lay buried. But it will NOT work for a shoulder shot. I also don't think it would work for a head or neck shot, unless you hit the spine. As loaded factory, I belive it is only available in a V-Max bullet. It would never make it through the bone, and would certainly wound the animal. Just play it safe and not try it.

ColoradoElk 12-17-2004 11:58 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
No.

As Pharoah2 mentioned, the 204 only comes from the factory in Rem and Hornady loads with the v-max or accu-tip, which is not appropriate for any non-varmint. Even reloaded with the heaviest Berger bullet, it would not be appropriate for deer.

trailer 12-17-2004 12:00 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
NO...........

Virginia7 12-17-2004 12:06 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Use a 204Ruger for deer? Hell NO!!! Not with shoulder shots, head, neck lung or any other dang place. IT'S A VARMINT CARTRIDGE - VARMINTS ONLY!

bigcountry 12-17-2004 12:29 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 

Do you guys think the 204 will take down a Deer with a sholder shot
No, I don't think it would take down a deer with shoulder shot. Ammo just isn't available that can penetrate to get thru the shoulder.

Dad gone, you guys are extremely jumpy today. Guy just asks would it take a deer down. Not ethical, not quickly. READ THE FREAKING QUESTION PEOPLE!!!! And all the sudden, everybody wants to be experts on something telling people what they should or shouldn't do.

bigcountry 12-17-2004 12:32 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 

First hand experience?

Oldelk, I have seen a 22hornet take down deer with neck and head shots so a 204 shouldn't be a big streatch. Not by my hands. Honest to goodness. But its known to alot of my yahoo family to be a poachers gun. Unfortunately.

BareBack Jack 12-17-2004 01:00 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Whats the diff between my 22-250 and .220 swift for shooting deer.As for neck and head shots it would work fine even with your varmit type bullets, shots under 100 yds.
It might be the best tool for the job,and there are plenty of other options out there.You are just going to have to ask your self are you ready to give up the buck of a lifetime cause you have a tool in your hands that might not get the job done.

I have seen first hand what a 22 WMR can do at 50-75 yd head shots on deer and it kills them dead.

oldelkhunter 12-17-2004 01:13 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Evidently he already has tried using it on deer unless I am mistaken.

driftrider 12-17-2004 01:41 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
NO, darnit! It's not just telling others what they should or should not do, it's about policing our own so the government, at the behest of the anti-gun anti-hunting organizations, won't do it for us.

He asked if the 204 Ruger will kill a deer with a shoulder shot. I'd say possibly, but not likely. That little 20cal bullet is lucky to make it through a coyote, let alone through a deer's shoulder.

And while he did not ask about the ethics of shooting deer with a 204 directly, he didn't ask the question for any other reason than he, or someone he knows, is contemplating doing just that which opens the door to a discusstion on not only if it will kill a deer, but if it's ethical to use it for that purpose. I've always been an opponent of using the .224cal centerfires for deer, and I certainly oppose using even less gun for the task. I've said it before many time, and I'll continue to say it as long as the topic of going intentionally undergunned keeps coming up again and again. Just because a perticlular cartridge CAN kill a deer, doesn't mean that it's ethically suited to deer hunting. I don't give a crap about all the anecdotal "evidence" that <.22cal CF's kill deer, it still doesn't make it ethical. Because for every story saying how fast somebodys brother/uncle/second cousin kills deer with their .223Rem, there are probably a dozen stories that never get told about wounded deer that have never been found. Unfortunately we rarily hear about these because those who visciously wound deer but fail to recover them for no other reason than choosing an underpowered rifle are too embarrassed and ashamed to admit it to their peers.

My opinion is this...while a .204 Ruger CAN kill a deer (as can a .22LR), it's absolutely NOT ethical and sportsmanlike to do so. The .204 Ruger was NOT designed to be a big game cartridge, period. If you want to hunt deer, go buy at least a .243 Win. If you can't afford a .243 and still want to hunt deer, trade in the .204. Just because the .204 is the only gun you have doesn't excuse you from the questionable ethics of using it. Because every deer that's wounded by a hunter feeds the fires of those who want to ban hunting by lending creedance to their argument that hunters and hunting is cruel. We owe it to the ourselves, our fellow sportsmen, and the animals we hunt to use tools capable of humanely taking our game even when the conditions of the shot aren't perfect.

Mike

bigcountry 12-17-2004 01:51 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Easy, don't get testing with me IA boy. You jumping on the wrong horse. I don't know why he asked. I ain't clairvoyant like the rest of you fellers. I have had simular discussions about will a field point kill a deer. A bunch of conversations. I had no intentions of trying and am not so mighty, to tell someone they shouldn't. Its thier deer, not mine. I don't think they ever tried. Just BS'ing. I learn something all the time from young shooters, old shooters.

Go ahead and police if you feel the need. I know my voice ain't making a dent in this little forum. But if it makes you sleep better at night. I know nobody is going to police me.

driftrider 12-17-2004 02:15 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
I'm not about to apoligize for stating my beliefs and my lack of apathy on this subject. I'm not the type of person to sit back and casually watch as others damage the good name of ethical hunters by doing unethical things, or worse yet endorse unethical conduct. If he is considering using a 204 for deer, then I feel that I would be irresponsible if I didn't at least try to steer him away from it.

As for you taking my statement as a personal attack on you, it was not meant that way. I WAS attacking your position, not your person. It's unfortunate that you apparently fail to recognise this distinction.

Mike

bigcountry 12-17-2004 02:47 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Well, maybe one day you can join a sewing circle and keep an eye out on people on your front porch and just go around telling the way it is according to driftrider.

Drhuner 12-17-2004 03:35 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
You were right it was a Quote ( but not from me ) it was from a owner of a gunshop who told me of a friend or coustomer of his that had taken a deer with one shot to the Head the rest he added, I agree with you that is why I was asking!!!!!!!

Drhuner 12-17-2004 03:37 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Oldelkhunter Yes you are Mistaken

Drhuner 12-17-2004 04:18 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
My thanks to bigcountry he is right, I got the persay Quote from a gun shop worker - owner? who told me of a guy -customer he knows that had taken a deer with a head shot ( I think he added the rest ) so I came here to get some responsable opinions from what I thought may have been a good sorce with knowageble Hunters and all I seem to get is a bunch of Bull Chips from most of you, although I do appreciate the straight out No's ( of which I agree with.
The main reason that I was asking is that I started hunting in Maryland about 20 years ago with a 25-06 which everyone then was to believe was a VARMIT round since then I have taken probaly 25 deer with it and have yet to see one going more than 30 yds, when most drop in their tracks, since I have done this most of the members of the club that I am in now have 25-06's.
I will surly think out my questions before I ask them here again.

Here is a Quote for you clairvoints ( Dont judge unless you are a JUDGE!!!!!!! )

bigcountry 12-17-2004 05:16 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Those guys from the Shore sportmans, if thats who you are talking too are pretty full of it. I am sure somebody over there did take a deer with a head shot. As they are all farmers over there and wish there was no such thing as whitetails.

mossy33oak 12-17-2004 05:42 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
lol, i gotta at least get a funny remark in on this one since its such a hot topic. You know, its funny, i guess i am just the opposite (or at least my friends tell me I am) in the fact that, my only real debates about calibers is "Is it too big"? I was surfing the Winchester web site the other day, and caught myself staring at the "Safari" grade guns wondering,"I wonder if a 458 would be too big for whitetail?" So, I guess there are debateable calibers on both ends of the spectrum, and a whole lotta choices in the middle. Lets be reasonable, and TRY to realize what these guns were designed for. I cant imagine, a situation where a person (financially) would look at a .204 and think "Wow if I buy this gun, I wont have to buy anything else!" If you want a multi use gun, try the 25-06 or 270, both can be used for varmits, and can be used for bigger than varmit sized game. This opinion, was not directed at Drhunter or any other member here, just whomever actually thought about or did use it for deer. :D

skeeter 7MM 12-17-2004 06:50 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Well a 22 mag is used to slaughter beef and buffalo so I suspect a 204 in the right spot of the head would also get it done...however the margin of error at feet is not really a factor of lets say 50-100 yards on a wild animal with either 20 or 22 cal. An old trapper claimed to harvest all his moose and elk with one well placed 22LR right behind the ear the distance couldn't be more than 30 yards to him but no one could tell him he was unethical or insane (which he was both IMPO).

For the sake of the question asked no I don't think a 20 or 22 cal is a suitable Deer caliber. I know many will claim that they work fine with the right placement, etc but that is not my opinion.

Ethics are personal guys I too try to push my beliefs when I hear or see something I don't quite agree with but it is like blow smoke up a monkey's arse...always end up with the stinky end but you must do what you feel compelled to do!

driftrider 12-18-2004 12:01 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 

Well, maybe one day you can join a sewing circle and keep an eye out on people on your front porch and just go around telling the way it is according to driftrider.
And you think I'm the one who's getting testy, LOL. There's a word for doing what you tell others not to do. Can you guess what it is? I told you that I wasn't being personal, and then you went and made it personal. You don't take criticism against your world according to bigcountry very well. Got your panties in a bunch over a comment that was mearly a criticism to your position and turned around and went personal. There's a word for that, too. It's "immature."

So relax, take a deep breath, and lets just agree to disagree.

Peace.

Mike

oldelkhunter 12-18-2004 05:05 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Just asking if he had shot one with a 204 BC. Do I thinkyou can kill a deer with a 204 definitely yes. Would I recommend it absolutely no.

pharaoh2 12-18-2004 07:19 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
The answer is purple.

Carpmaster 12-18-2004 05:20 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Why not use a 22 short? I wouldnt recommend on thats for sure!!! It will kill them but results may vary greatly and inhumane results might be more so the rule than not.

James B 12-18-2004 06:27 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
It might take a deer but it would not be legal in the states where I hunt. 22 caliber minimum. However a 22 rimfire will kill deer so I quess the 204 would as well.

bigcountry 12-18-2004 10:27 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 

word for doing what you tell others
Yes, there is a word. Its called comedy. Trying to make light out of a situation. Or let others know in a funny way that they need to have that stick surgically removed and read the FREAKING QUESTION. I mean come on guys, none of us on here are curing cancer. And if you really think you are changing the world by policing others, you are pretty full of yourself. If thats immature, I will be immature my whole life. Won't bother me a bit. I take it as a compliment, since most people that work for me or my family consider me too serious, and acting like a old man as a young age in my mid 30's. I mean I got uncles 70 years old that bust peoples chops 10X worse than I do. You may be right, my world is help people by answering the question at hand, and if you want to go on about ethics according to driftrider, go to the the hunting forum and start your own post ranting and raving and policing. And just answer the quesiton about a gun's performance in the gun forum. If you did that, I guarntee you wouldn't hear a peep from me suggesting you are a busybody.

And about the sewing circle. Well, if you can't take a joke, you know how it goes.

idahoelkinstructor 12-19-2004 01:03 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
WOW wEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I am sure glad the smallest gun I have ever owned is a .270. Of course for some this is still two small for anything but varmits![&:] I would like to own a 22-250 for varmits and target practice. Being serious I would never use it for any deer! My brother in law went on a mule deer doe hunt this last november with two of his friends. They both brought along hi powered 22's, a 223 and a 22-250. My brother in law was shooting his .300 WM still dialed in from elk season. I told him that I would try to convince his friends to use a bigger caliber for the hunt. Especially because a mule deer doe can be a big bodied animal, and their furr in late season is thicker. But he didn't want to hurt their feelings, and if they wounded any deer that he would try to put it down in a hurry and that was Ok with them. BTW they both owned bigger guns, they just wanted to try to shoot thier doe's with the 22's. My point to all of this is more people try and do hunt with the 22's more than we think, and I too believe that they wound a lot of deer in the process. Not trying to add to the war already here, so if I offended anyone I am sorry.

USMC PMI 12-20-2004 05:08 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Hey BigCountry ,well said and if it helps I'll be in your sewing circle if you start one! A lot of strong opinions in this entire forum, some can take it, some can't. If someone is offended stop reading the posts and taking part in them. If I may, I killed a little 4 point with a .17 two years ago, head shot at about 25 yards. Don't have a reason to do it again, and most likely never will. I did it just to see if I could and if that pisses someone off, tough. There is a little deer population problem in my area so many are slaughtered in mass hunts then buried in a big pit just to thin the numbers. I am sure as always someone will reply and call me names, go for it cheif, type until your fingers bleed. Only one way to find out if the .204 works on deer. . . . . .

zrexpilot 12-20-2004 04:20 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
I have a friend who only uses a 22 Hornet for deer, and he's never lost one. The ethical police will tell you not to shoot with anything less than a 300-06 super ultramagnum magnum. But in reality deer are not that tough an animal to kill. They will also tell you not to neck or head shoot deer, which I do all the time, never wounded one that way either. Will a .204 kill a deer ? yep, deader than dead. Are they're better choices for deer ? yes they're are.

dead_eye 12-20-2004 07:10 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Ehh sure just make it super accurate and put it in one eye and out the other

Stump_MN_Hunter 12-21-2004 06:39 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
I think that USMC PMI said it perfectly on the subject of when guys use small(varmint) calibers for deer hunting and WHY.......


If I may, I killed a little 4 point with a .17 two years ago, head shot at about 25 yards. Don't have a reason to do it again, and most likely never will. I did it just to see if I could and if that pisses someone off, tough.
It's sort of an ego builder to do it! Just so you can tell your buddies what you just did. OH JOY!! Maybe it makes you feel proud. Who knows. Whatever floats your boat I guess. The only major problem I have with it is....what if a monster bucks steps out 75-100yards from you?? Would you take a poke with that .17, 22-250, .204? Of course you guys would....cause it's a monster. Stupid people do stupid stuff when big bucks are walking around. **DISCLAIMER** I'm not calling those using those small calibers stupid. Just a general statement. Whew...had to put that one in there. Now if you were using a caliber that was designed to go deer hunting with, that type of shot isn't that difficult. Get what I'm saying? Of course all of this is MY opinion.

superman8791 12-21-2004 08:23 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 

ORIGINAL: bigcountry


Do you guys think the 204 will take down a Deer with a sholder shot
No, I don't think it would take down a deer with shoulder shot. Ammo just isn't available that can penetrate to get thru the shoulder.

Dad gone, you guys are extremely jumpy today. Guy just asks would it take a deer down. Not ethical, not quickly. READ THE FREAKING QUESTION PEOPLE!!!! And all the sudden, everybody wants to be experts on something telling people what they should or shouldn't do.


I agree bigcountry, I think SOME people take it to seriously, I have posted similiar topics like the 9mm luger on deer thing a couple of weeks ago and people got all FIRED up![:@]

I believe that these boards should not be your basis for how you hunt, that should be something built into your ethics already. I mean seriously, how many of us are going to see a deer in the front yard and say hang on let me check the board to see if X caliber will kill it...it will ok now Ill shoot. I think that just like me Drhuner had a passing thought and he posted it. That is what this board and others are about, sharing opinions...and thoughts, doesnt mean you gotta JUMP down somebodies throat though. I know NOW Drhuner will think his questions through though, just like me.


Also, Drhuner just so you know only a 470 Nitro x-press or BIGGER will kill a whitetail, after all they are practically immortal creatures.

bigcountry 12-21-2004 09:28 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 

It's sort of an ego builder to do it! Just so you can tell your buddies what you just did. OH JOY!!
I think you got him wrong stump. I understand why you say that. But here in MD, there are alot of mass killing of does. You see litterly dozens some night. Where he lives, he might be part of that Aberdeen Proving grounds thing. You don't want to eat them in a biochemical enviroment. Also, lost of farmers that hate deer and just want to see them wiped off the face of the earth.

When I grew up in Ky and lived in WV, and NC, the deer population isn't near as bad. And a deer is a precious thing. For the freezer and for seeing.

USMC PMI 12-21-2004 10:58 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Well BC you are kinda right. Honestly I did do it just to see if I could, now that I have there is no interest in said named activities with the .17. I don't live too close to Aberdeen but have hunted on post there. Lots of deer but small for this area, not sure if that mustard gas has anything to do with it. I eat deer that I shoot in Northern Harford county from a few farms I have permission to hunt, and from WV where I do most of my whitetail hunting. I guess my point was that many deer, esp. does, are "culled" here every year and eating them is questionable, so yeah I do have fun playing around with them. Maybe not ethical but this is not a typical situation. As long as the deer is dead or going to die the farmers and really the government is happy. Sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings.

Stump_MN_Hunter 12-21-2004 11:29 AM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Even if you were in that area and needed to cull some deer out, I still don't understand why you'd prefer to use such a small caliber just to see if it could be done. But I guess that's just me.

USMC PMI 12-21-2004 01:55 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
I don't own a 204 and would not use it on a regular basis for deer size game if I did. I am simply saying from experience that small calibers under the correct conditions and with proper shot placement will cleanly kill deer. I have no reason to continue said named activities with a .17. All that said there are a few state sponsored groups that kill deer on public golf courses and in populated areas using a .22 LR supressed rifle shooting 60 grain Sub-Sonic rounds. They have been doing this for quite a while and have found it to be effective. Again this is not something for your average Joe to try, these are well trained marksman.

jcb9901 12-21-2004 02:47 PM

RE: Is the Ruger 204 Big enough for Whitetail
 
Yes a 204 will kill a deer,That does not make it ethical or humane.If a 1000fps .177 pellet gun will kill a kid "which it did in cleveland ohio "then it would kill a deer but that dooes't make it a deer rifle.I also don't think those smaller caliber kill as quickly causing the animal undo suffering .


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