zrexpilot

.44 Magnum 240 gr. slug at 1400 fps : .430 X 240 X 1400
divided by 7000 = 20.6 Knock Out (KO)

.270 Winchester 130 gr. slug at 3100 fps : .277 X 130 X
3100 divided by 7000 = 15.9 KO

I guess you guys should throw away your .270's because a 44 mag is a better gun. Buwhahahahaha ! What a bunch of bunk !

James B

You can't get it through your head that the TKO or any other theory is not the whole picture. It a way to compare the same stats from one caliber to the next. Many Many Many other things enter in to the final kill. If you are comparing a 45-70 to a 458 Lott to a 416 Rigby then the TKO would be a good measure. If you are comparing a 22 hornet to a 460 Weatherby then that would be a poor comparison. Yhere is absolutely no way to fairly compare extreme calibers to each other using any theory of the kill. I shoot calibers from 223 to 45-70 and have owned almost all the big magnums. They each have a slot to fill and I rate mine from expierence not from any theory that I have ever seen.

Judson

In the past, james and I have had our go arounds but he is right here!!!! I do not care if you go by Taylor knock out value (TKO) or what have you, you use the right tool for the job and that is not a .204 or any .224 for deer! Deer hunting is not an eggo contest to see who can kill a deer with the smallest needle blower. Nor should the cartridge you choose be a inflater to your eggo the Idea is for a cleen kill not bragging rights for using the lightest powered cartridge. Killing a deer is not the chalange it is getting to the point where we have the shot with which we can put our game on the ground. Using a small or weak cartridge is not part of this chalange. If a person can not handle a rifle of approprate power for deer hunting then they should not hunt. If a person is not willing to put in the time to learn how and when to shoot then maby they should take up another hobby.
Deer hunting is not target shooting somthing is giong to bleed and die so use enough gun to make it quick and clean. Sure the pipsqueeks can do it but defication happens so use enough gun to be humain when this stuff occures.

zrexpilot

you can keep it in your picture but it aint in any part of mine. Its a total farse. second I'm not recomending the .204, I have never said that . Were discussing using the TKO value to determine if a gun should be used or not. TKO is bunk. I wouldnt ever use that bogus theory. Energy is physical facts. Velocity is physical facts. This I would use and consider.

James B

Something is BUNK alright but it not the TKO. Good luck. you will need it.

zrexpilot

check out this link. http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html

Judson

I will agree with you in that the TKO is not perfect but that is where it ends!!!! The .404 and the over blown .300 Ultra have close to the same energy, which would you rather shoot a Cape Buff with? If you pick the Ultra then you are a fool!!! Energy is no more a factor then the TKO value. In reality there is no formula that works out for all calibers but even so there is a lot to be said for the TKO idea. If all you have hunted is deer and North American critters then do not put the TKO down all you are proving is ignorence!

driftrider

zrex,

That's an interesting link you provided to some VERY interesting and enlightening analysis on terminal ballistics based on real science, not trumped up pseudo-scientific jibberish.

But I also see that you mentioned much earlier on that you know others who use .224cals with success (the .22 Hornet is what you mentioned I believe), and regularly take head and neck shots, so I suggest that you read the entire article, including the section where your cited author condemns the use of .224cal rifles for deer hunting and even questions the wisdom of using the .243.

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/b...s/methods.html

Scroll down to Section 5 on this page to see what he thinks about this perticular topic.

Mike

HighDesertWolf

A 35 grain ballistic tip from a 204 is designed to frag on impact which is great for varmints but on a deer I think the bullet would stop in its shoulder and not penetrate deep enough to fatally wound the deer. Also most states require at the minimum that a bullet be 60 grains or heavier that produces atleast 1000 ft lbs at the muzzle to be legal and /or ethical for deer.

HighDesertWolf

But in some cases I dont think that is correct but they do it because it covers a wider margin of minimum calibers. Why i dont think that is a correct way to lay the law for limiting calibers for deer hunting is because I have killed a few deer with pistol calibers the 357 mag with a 158 grain hornady XTP which has about 500 lbs of muzzle energy, The 45 ACP with a 185 grain barnes XPB which has about 400 lbs of muzzle energy and a 45 long colt with a speer 260 grain JHP which has about 500 lbs of muzzle energy which have proved to be fine on deer and had plenty of penetration but ofcourse all the shots were less then 50 yards. I think it come down to this on larger calibers the muzzle energy doesnt play as big of a role as it does in smaller calibers as Jeff Cooper always said " You cannot replace bullet mass with velocity" basically that means just because a .223 has the same muzzle energy as a 44 magnum it doesnt mean the 223 is just as powerful as the 44 mag the 44 mag is a proven deer caliber time and time again but the 223 is very doubtful as being suited for deer.