BarnesX.308

We had the guy at the gun store trying to tell us that the bullet does not come out of the barrel in a straight line. He was telling us the old myth about how the bullet actually rises up at first. When we suggested that this was not possible, he told us that the bullet planes like a kite on the air currents. I didn’t want to argue with him because I had already argued with him about the point of impact at different ranges varying with the distance the scope is from the barrel.

bigcountry

Holy Cow, I wouldn't know how to respond to that ignorance. I might have to just sigh, and walk away.

Solitary Man

A lot (maybe most) of the guys working at gun or hunting related stores don't have a clue about what they're selling. Not long ago I was at a local outdoor store and overheard the guy behind the counter explaining to a customer why brand X scope was better than brand Y scope. "This scope here's the one to go with, it's got real strong parallax", he says. I started to ask him to explain parallax to me (which I already understand) for the amusement I would have gotten out of his explanation, but I just grinned and walked away. I think the customer was on to him too, he walked out without buying either scope.

Bilge

Barnes, That's one of those situations where you just want to walk to the nearest brick wall and start banging your head on it. Because you know you'll have better luck with the wall and who knows if do it long enough you might get lucky and forget you even heard that dis-logic come out of another human beings mount!

SolidarityMan, It never ceases to amaze me that some sales people just can't seem to say,"I don't know" or I'm not sure." When I find one that does it's a relief because then I can take the rest of what they said more seriously.

driftrider

Well, if we want to play symantics, one could say that a bullet "rising' from the muzzle after being fired is, in most cases, technically correct if you're referring to the path of the bullet relative to the line-of-sight. Generally a bullet "rises" or ascends relative to the LOS and the ground before it decends toward the ground. But whether the bullet is actually moving upward or downward, it is always falling due to the unresisted force of gravity.

The bullet, however, does not create any lifting force that causes it to fly in the gravity defying sense.

Mike

bigcountry

Hmm, you got a point drift. So techncially the guy behind the counter is right except for the whole kite stupidy. I think we all owe him a appology. Cause this is what he had to mean, cause a bullet rising with no pressure deltas like a airplane wing is impossible.

zekeskar

I know what you're saying is true, but to make it even more clear, shouldn't we say that it rises in relation to LOS because the barrel is pointed upward in relation to LOS. IT rises up from the end of the barrel because the barrel is actually pointed upward. We do this so that the trajectory of the bullet from the barrel (pointed ever so slightly upward) intersects LOS at a certain point (our zero point). The confusion is that the bullet may continue to go upwards beyond the LOS before it falls back down to LOS and below. This is what the poor ignorant clerk didn't understand and was groping for an explanation for. Probalby someone else who didn't know had told him. I know I was confused until I saw it in a diagram. FWIW

Bilge

Well, if we really want to break it down (symantically or otherwise LOL):

As soon as the bullet leaves the barrel it starts "falling" in relation to the plane of the barrel. The rise is in relation to LOS which has no physical bearing on the bullet's path what so ever. Just being a little anal here...LOL! But it seems this thread was going that way any how.

NVMIKE

If the barrel is aimed flat the bullet will not rise at all, it will immediately start to drop. the key is that the barrel isnt laid out flat, the SCOPE is. So to get the point of impact on the ceter of the crosshairs at a give distance, we LAUNCH the bullet upwards, it doesnt get any aerodynamic lift, only whatever trajectory is inherent in the angle at which we launch it upward..

Bilge

I think you read my post too fast. You missed the part about the bullet path in relation to the plane of the barrel. Yes, the bullet "rises" in relation to the Line Of Sight, but not the the plane of the barrel which will be angled "up" in relation to the line of sight (not necessarily the horizan, but that's another can of worms). The LOS is once again confusing the issue me thinks. The original post was really about how the rise in the path of the bullet in relation to the LOS was being confused with an old myth that somehow the bullet takes off and actually rises in relation to the plane the barrel was on when fired. What I was saying was that the bullet is dropping down from the plane of the barrel and never rises above it.